What is Ox Tongue?

[edededed]

Ok now I'm really confused. Unless I'm just mishearing a different palm shape. The one I'm doing has the thumb stretched OUT and then it's "lifted" (if the palm is facing upwards) up about 90degrees and the thumb and pointer finger "stretch" away from each other making the palm hollow.

Zoinks.

Parry - don't learn from the Internet! Your Fu style is not the same as the Yin style (which uses the ox tongue palm) - so don't go and imitate this palm in class or your teacher might smack you! The palm you are doing is just fine, and probably correlates to the so-called "dragon palm" of Cheng style.

Not all baguazhang is the same.

[ParryPerson]

Ok now I'm really confused. Unless I'm just mishearing a different palm shape. The one I'm doing has the thumb stretched OUT and then it's "lifted" (if the palm is facing upwards) up about 90degrees and the thumb and pointer finger "stretch" away from each other making the palm hollow.

Zoinks.

Parry - don't learn from the Internet! Your Fu style is not the same as the Yin style (which uses the ox tongue palm) - so don't go and imitate this palm in class or your teacher might smack you! The palm you are doing is just fine, and probably correlates to the so-called "dragon palm" of Cheng style.

Not all baguazhang is the same.

Why on earth would I try and learn from the internet when I have a real teacher? I was just interested in the differences I was seeing in what was called "ox tongue" and thought I'd ask. We do the palm I explained and one that is dragon palm.

[edededed]

Oh, okay, just checking

In fact, the two palms have many similarities, although the outward shape is quite different. I do think that the ox tongue palm is better for hitting, the dragon palm better for grabbing.

[mixjourneyman]

Oh, okay, just checking

In fact, the two palms have many similarities, although the outward shape is quite different. I do think that the ox tongue palm is better for hitting, the dragon palm better for grabbing.

A quick note: the dragon palm is actually held in such a way that it makes the palm of the hand very hard for striking.
Just fyi

[nianfong]

but easier for you to break your fingers.

[mixjourneyman]

but easier for you to break your fingers.

Its easy enough to break your fingers in the Ox tongue format too

[D_Glenn]

Oh, okay, just checking

In fact, the two palms have many similarities, although the outward shape is quite different. I do think that the ox tongue palm is better for hitting, the dragon palm better for grabbing.

A quick note: the dragon palm is actually held in such a way that it makes the palm of the hand very hard for striking.
Just fyi

Yeah I agree with Mix. (wow did I just say that? ) The dragon palm in particular hardens up the heel of the palm and ridge of the hand for (pi) 'chopping' and even develops the back of the palm, top of wrist and forearm for (ban) 'moving' strikes.

While the ox-toungue palm actually strengthens the grip by constantly squeezing the thumb into/across the palm.

[nianfong]

but easier for you to break your fingers.

Its easy enough to break your fingers in the Ox tongue format too

when your fingers are apart it is by its very nature easier to catch your fingers on something and break them. when the fingers are held together, they protect each other.

[Walk the Torque]

but easier for you to break your fingers.

Its easy enough to break your fingers in the Ox tongue format too

when your fingers are apart it is by its very nature easier to catch your fingers on something and break them. when the fingers are held together, they protect each other.

Not only that, but when the fingers are together they condense the force into a smaller area and therefore strengthen the striking or piercing powah! Density

[ParryPerson]

In what I've been learning, which is, extremely new, the dragon palm does strengthen the palm but so does ox tongue, and in what I've seen so far the dragon palm seems to lead to an ox tongue palm. I've (in my limited time) seen the dragon palm for the deflect/grasp and then the ox tongue for the end/strike.

[mixjourneyman]

Oh, okay, just checking

In fact, the two palms have many similarities, although the outward shape is quite different. I do think that the ox tongue palm is better for hitting, the dragon palm better for grabbing.

A quick note: the dragon palm is actually held in such a way that it makes the palm of the hand very hard for striking.
Just fyi

Yeah I agree with Mix. (wow did I just say that? ) The dragon palm in particular hardens up the heel of the palm and ridge of the hand for (pi) 'chopping' and even develops the back of the palm, top of wrist and forearm for (ban) 'moving' strikes.

While the ox-toungue palm actually strengthens the grip by constantly squeezing the thumb into/across the palm.

Well, at least we can agree on something.

[mixjourneyman]

I personally see the dragon palm as being more changeable than the Ox tongue, but yes, those fingers can get caught on things.
Thats why you have to train force in your fingers too (via dynamic tension).

[edededed]

In what I've been learning, which is, extremely new, the dragon palm does strengthen the palm but so does ox tongue, and in what I've seen so far the dragon palm seems to lead to an ox tongue palm. I've (in my limited time) seen the dragon palm for the deflect/grasp and then the ox tongue for the end/strike.

Hmm - maybe Fu style is sort of like Liang style!

[shawnsegler]

I personally see the dragon palm as being more changeable than the Ox tongue

We just train it differently. It's a little harder to see. We do a lot of subtle, one finger at a time hooking sorts of action so that you are moving your "willow leaf" or "ox tongue" palm like a little tentacle tip.

If I ever get up to Canadia I'll show you.

S

[SteveBonzak]

I personally see the dragon palm as being more changeable than the Ox tongue

We just train it differently. It's a little harder to see. We do a lot of subtle, one finger at a time hooking sorts of action so that you are moving your "willow leaf" or "ox tongue" palm like a little tentacle tip.

If I ever get up to Canadia I'll show you.

S

Could you explain this? I think we might do something similar in my line of bagua. We do some hand qigong where we move individual fingers from hand posture to hand posture. Thanks.

-Steve