The definition of 'Yi' (intention) in the Internal arts

[Bao]

The reason that I don't like CMC's Taiji form because I cannot see any Yi in it - trying to knock a hole through his imaginary opponent's body.

From a martial arts perspective, I tend to agree with John. Yi should nurture the shen or "spirit". If it does, it should be visible through the eyes. There should be focus and a certain stare. Many tai chi schools forget this.

htts://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noPgNyFZcsk
(Niu Chunming. He was a disciple of Yang Jianhou and after his death, he became first disciple of Yang Chengfu.)

[bartekb]

From a martial arts perspective, I tend to agree with John. Yi should nurture the shen or "spirit". If it does, it should be visible through the eyes. There should be

It should be so much easier if instead of infinte plethora of solo forms we could just watch 2 man demonstrations.

[johnwang]

Yi should nurture the shen or "spirit". If it does, it should be visible through the eyes. There should be focus and a certain stare. Many tai chi schools forget this.

Between 25.00 - 26:00 the teacher said, "In MA, you hit with your eyes. Look at my eyes! Look at my eyes! That's enough for today."

IMO, to separate Yi training or Qi training to be outside of the combat training makes no sense to me.

It should be so much easier if instead of infinte plethora of solo forms we could just watch 2 man demonstrations.

If people can concentrate on "partner training", they will get Yi training and Qi training as by product.

[Bao]

IMO, to separate Yi training or Qi training to be outside of the combat training makes no sense to me.

Agreed.

If people can concentrate on "partner training", they will get Yi training and Qi training as by product.

To express that kind of thinking in public or in book form would empty the classes and make a lot of teachers unemployed. People who pay for studying TCMA wants forms, meditation, traditions, mysticism and be able to dress in a fancy shiny pyjama.

[johnwang]

People who pay for studying TCMA wants forms, meditation, traditions, mysticism and be able to dress in a fancy shiny pyjama.

If you don't have training partner at home, when you go to school, you will have training partners, you should take advantage on it.

[willywrong]

The reason that I don't like CMC's Taiji form because I cannot see any Yi in it - trying to knock a hole through his imaginary opponent's body.

From a martial arts perspective, I tend to agree with John. Yi should nurture the shen or "spirit". If it does, it should be visible through the eyes. There should be focus and a certain stare. Many tai chi schools forget this.

htts://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noPgNyFZcsk
(Niu Chunming. He was a disciple of Yang Jianhou and after his death, he became first disciple of Yang Chengfu.)

One of the one liners in the classics is "Externally quiet, Internally active." The work being done in the CMC is of a internal nature and is not easily perceived from its external appearance. It is definitely not lacking in mind intent. It is a meditational form so to judge it as a fighting form baffles me as to why you would bother. This is to liken Chi kung to fighting. It might have useful things that aid fighting but they not fighting. From a fighting prospective I see heaps wrong but from an internal prospective I see heaps right. Not everything is about fighting in TCMA's.

[Bao]

It is a meditational form so to judge it as a fighting form baffles me as to why you would bother. This is to liken Chi kung to fighting. It might have useful things that aid fighting but they not fighting. ... Not everything is about fighting in TCMA's.

It is a fighting form. All tai chi is about fighting. In Tai Chi, you should not be able to separate the combat art from the health art. I agree 100% with JW on this. In tai chi, every health aspect comes from the martial arts practice. They can not be separated.

If you understand application of tai chi movements, the balance and structure of the form will be correct from the health and neidan perspective as well. If you don't want to understand it as a fighting art, plain qigong systems or yoga will be a better choice for health practice.

[windwalker]

there seems to be different approaches depending on type of skill, skill development and use.

Remember, every movement should be clean and relaxed. With this your perspicacity, alacrity, and flexibility can grow. Avoid becoming angry and displaying combative signs such as clenching teeth and staring angrily with your eyes. Those intentions and mannerisms are harmful; avoid them.
Some may ask, "If you do not have intention during the practice, when you need it during combat, how can you then use it?" Actually, practice is the time for building and accumulating your qi and spirit. If you consolidate your qi and spirit, when you need them, they will easily come out. If during practice you become extremely angry and show such energy and qi externally, you will exhaust your qi and spirit. In this case, since your qi then cannot accumulate, when needed you will not have a sufficient supply to be able to make a truly surprising movement.

http://www.qi-journal.com/Taiji.asp?Nam ... .D=Article

Actually, practice is the time for building and accumulating your qi and spirit. If you consolidate your qi and spirit, when you need them, they will easily come out. If during practice you become extremely angry and show such energy and qi externally, you will exhaust your qi and spirit. In this case, since your qi then cannot accumulate, when needed you will not have a sufficient supply to be able to make a truly surprising movement

I agree with and use this approach.
There are practices that clearly help one to understand and separate what is called "Yi" intention from the act itself.
the main point being is allowing the "intent" itself to do the work. If its strong enough, another s mind/body will react to it.

[willywrong]

It is a meditational form so to judge it as a fighting form baffles me as to why you would bother. This is to liken Chi kung to fighting. It might have useful things that aid fighting but they not fighting. ... Not everything is about fighting in TCMA's.

It is a fighting form. All tai chi is about fighting. In Tai Chi, you should not be able to separate the combat art from the health art. I agree 100% with JW on this. In tai chi, every health aspect comes from the martial arts practice. They can not be separated.

If you understand application of tai chi movements, the balance and structure of the form will be correct from the health and neidan perspective as well. If you don't want to understand it as a fighting art, plain qigong systems or yoga will be a better choice for health practice.

"Form follows function" So maybe you better ask your mate JW as it appears to be his opinion that its lacks function.

The reason that I don't like CMC's Taiji form because I cannot see any Yi in it - trying to knock a hole through his imaginary opponent's body.

From a martial arts perspective, I tend to agree with John. Yi should nurture the shen or "spirit". If it does, it should be visible through the eyes. There should be focus and a certain stare. Many tai chi schools forget this.

Maybe you need to have to see it.

[Bao]

Avoid becoming angry and displaying combative signs such as clenching teeth and staring angrily with your eyes. [u]Those intentions and mannerisms are harmful; avoid them.

Who ever spoke anything about showing anger or tensing up?

... It's not like the people here are all beginners and need to learn the very basics ...

"Form follows function"

Maybe you need to have to see it.

"Form follows function"
Exactly. It is form that follows function, not the other way around. First you must understand function in order to have the correct form.

How many Cheng stylists are taught all applications in the very beginning? And how many are actually interested in the form as a fighting art. Someone said that it's a meditation form, not a fighting form, remember? If it's learned for meditation only, how could it ever have the correct form?

"Maybe you need to have to see it."
It must still be there in order to see it. The problem is that no one, or at least very few, teach how to look and where. If you are not taught or have understood it by yourself through the years, it might or it might not be there. IME, people who learn tai chi for meditation only seldom pay much attention to the eyes.

[jonathan.bluestein]

It is a meditational form so to judge it as a fighting form baffles me as to why you would bother.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there CMC lineage practitioners who consider this a fighting form? I believe this was the source for his 'confusion' - not his assumption, but other people's claims. I am in any case in agreement with Bao and sifu Wang - I think this form is too Yin and way too flaccid to have any fighting intent.

[willywrong]

It is a meditational form so to judge it as a fighting form baffles me as to why you would bother.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there CMC lineage practitioners who consider this a fighting form? I believe this was the source for his 'confusion' - not his assumption, but other people's claims. I am in any case in agreement with Bao and sifu Wang - I think this form is too Yin and way too flaccid to have any fighting intent.

So are you inferring that it has no Yi (intent) because it appears too flaccid/lacking in your opinion no fighting function? Perhaps you should talk to Mario Napali of New York City. Oh and Jonathan how long have you been doing tai chi or JW or Bao for that matter or is just academic ramblings.

[Michael Babin]

Martial Intention can show in the eyes; but a clever and experienced fighter doesn't show intention until he wants to do so. It is also true that a meditative and relaxed gaze in a solo form can be very useful as part of the total package of someone capable of effective self-defence who also wants the rest of the taiji package.

It's too bad that we most often meet the extremes at either end of the taiji spectrum... the kung fu killers at one end with their serious or aggressive glaring during solo form and the dreamy-eyed softies at the New Age end of it.

Real taiji eye use is as "dreamy" the eye of a polar bear in the zoo who appears asleep until someone gets too close to the bars of his enclosure.

[Bao]

Oh and Jonathan how long have you been doing tai chi or JW or Bao for that matter or is it academic ramblings.

Why don't you just check the profiles? Maybe you should check around, read some posts and maybe go to people's homepages so you learn something about the people you address... Just a friendly advice ...

[windwalker]

Avoid becoming angry and displaying combative signs such as clenching teeth and staring angrily with your eyes. [u]Those intentions and mannerisms are harmful; avoid them.

Who ever spoke anything about showing anger or tensing up?

... It's not like the people here are all beginners and need to learn the very basics ..

didnt write anything, only posted a different view point about practice and function, one that I use and support.
understanding and using "intent" starts from day one, but really IMO is not a basic concept.