Taiji 按 An + leg hooking

[wayne hansen]

Just look at Chen tin hung. Wu style
The leg hook is used all the time
Especially repulse monkey

[bartekb]

very minimal amount of force

my experience of training martial arts for the last 25 years is this kind of situation happened to me like 3 times during sparring, and never when sparring other clubs:) Looking at the videos of grandmasters sparring each other competitively - dont happen to them too often also:)

[yeniseri]

I once made a reference to leg trapping encompassing qinna on a similar forum and from that experience I realize that many people are unable to grasp certain concepts which are applicable to many styles and not just one!
Many concepts are either taken literally or they are just debunked because they are not Taiji enough for their limited world view on how they perceive the art. An can be facilitated by use of other concepts in oder to be well rounded, I might think. How you train is how you will react

[johnwang]

they are not Taiji enough ...

That's very sad indeed.

As long as you can use your set up to make your opponent to stand on one leg, the "An + leg hook" can be very effective.

[windwalker]

he could do the same thing earlier by disrupting the center while still maintaining his own using less contact points.

When your opponent is static (not moving), you

- hook first (unbalance), and
- push afterward (throw).

If your opponent is dynamic (moving toward you or moving away from you), you may want to combine hand push and leg hook as one single move. You can use both hands to push. You can also use one hand to push too. When you use

- one hand to push, your opponent can yield, and spin.
- both palms to push, your opponent cannot spin.

IMO, 3 contact points is better than 2 contact points, and 2 contact points is better than 1 contact point. But to get 3 contact points is harder than to get 2 contact points. To get 2 contact points is harder than to get 1 contact point.

@jw

can you provide a little info on what your teacher felt like when he was doing his movements as shown.
from watching it really seems like although there are 3 points of contact the others balance is already gone before
they are used.

we emphasis the opposite, one contact point should be enough to disrupt the balance.
when I watch your teacher move, while true he does have 3 points, just looking at it
it appears that the others balance is gone at first contact.

[johnwang]

can you provide a little info on what your teacher felt like when he was doing his movements as shown.

If you catch the right timing, your opponent can be off balance on your

- hooking,
- pushing, or
- hooking and pushing at the same time.

In SC, the concept of

- 1 attacking leg, and
- 1 rooting leg.

is very important.

When your opponent uses his attacking leg to attack your leading leg, you will

- make your leading leg to be your rooting leg, and
- use your back attacking leg to attack his rooting leg.

Since your opponent is using his attacking leg to attack your rooting leg, also since you are using your attacking leg to attack his rooting leg, who will be off balance first depends on who has better timing and better skill level.

[daniel pfister]

John,

What is it about the technique shown that makes it specifically a "Taiji 按 An" and not some other kind of push/shove?

[johnwang]

What is it about the technique shown that makes it specifically a "Taiji 按 An" and not some other kind of push/shove?

If you are asking about that clip, that clip just show that "leg move" can be added into most of the Taiji moves to make it more combat effective. In David C. K. Lin's 48 moves Chang Taiji form video, Peng, Lu, Ji, An, cloud hand, diagonal fly, brush knee, ... all have "leg move" added into it.

[daniel pfister]

If you are asking about that clip, that clip just show that "leg move" can be added into most of the Taiji moves to make it more combat effective. In David C. K. Lin's 48 moves Chang Taiji form video, Peng, Lu, Ji, An, cloud hand, diagonal fly, brush knee, ... all have "leg move" added into it.

I was talking about the original clip in your first post where the leg is hooked then you push your arms out. Is that what you mean by a "Taiji 按 An"?

The push comes after the hook, at least when done solo, so it seems that the push was added to the leg hook, not the other way around. Unless that isn't supposed to be a Taiji push...

[johnwang]

I was talking about the original clip in your first post where the leg is hooked then you push your arms out. Is that what you mean by a "Taiji 按 An"?

The push comes after the hook, at least when done solo, so it seems that the push was added to the leg hook, not the other way around. Unless that isn't supposed to be a Taiji push...

The original Taiji An has no leg hook. A double hands push is a double hands push. There is no such thing as Taiji double hands push and SC double hands push.

Are you asking "why hook first and push afterward"? You have to control your opponent's leg first so he won't have 2 free legs when you push him. I know Taiji guys won't like me to say this. But I'm a Taiji guy myself too. IMO, Taiji guys may give their opponents too much "leg freedom". It's very important to reduce your opponent's leg mobility/freedom as much as you can.

In the following clip, he pushes with 1 hand, but he still hook 1st and push afterward. You put a bench behind your opponent 1st, you then push him. It's just simply logic. There is no secret in it.

[daniel pfister]

The original Taiji An has no leg hook. A double hands push is a double hands push. There is no such thing as Taiji double hands push and SC double hands push.

So you are saying that the double hand push used after the inner leg hook is the same functional technique as the Taiji 按 An? They would need to be at least similar if the leg hook was to be applied effectively.

Are you asking "why hook first and push afterward"? You have to control your opponent's leg first so he won't have 2 free legs when you push him.

.

Would you not want to control him before he is in leg hooking range?

[johnwang]

So you are saying that the double hand push used after the inner leg hook is the same functional technique as the Taiji 按 An? They would need to be at least similar if the leg hook was to be applied effectively.

Would you not want to control him before he is in leg hooking range?

1. No! The "SC inner hood" doesn't need "Taiji An".
2. You can grab your opponent first.

[daniel pfister]

So any push will work? It doesn't require the more specialized Tai Chi An. So why bother mixing the two?

[johnwang]

So any push will work? It doesn't require the more specialized Tai Chi An. So why bother mixing the two?

Many years ago, David C. K. Lin and I put out a joint effort to condense the 108 moves Chang Taiji into a 48 moves Chang Taiji (because the original form has too many redundancy). David went one step further in that task. He gave a new name to our 48 moves condensed Taiji as "Yin/Soft Taiji". At the same time, he also created a copy of "Yang/Hard Taiji". In that version, he added extra leg moves and extra footwork into it (he didn't add that into Yin/Soft Taiji). That was the day that 48 moves "Yang/Hard Taiji" was born.

To answer your question, "Why bother mixing the two?" David tried to contribute his combat knowledge to the Taiji system. It will be up to the further generation to judge on that creation effort.

The following is how a "Yin/Soft Taiji" "Lu - pull back" can be done as "Yang/Hard Taiji". The difference can be seen easily.

[wayne hansen]

Yes it can be seen easily
It is not tai chi it is sc the locked arms are a giveaway