Hsing-I as a Medical Practice?

[Peacedog]

A relationship does exist between the elements and organs in my experience. Working with this properly can be very effective at helping any number of conditions.

That said, xingyi as it is normally taught does not generate this specific effect. When you look at tantric yogic practice you are given the tools of body, speech and mind. You would need to apply that to all five fists clearly and deliberately to generate part of the effect. The other half, the meditative side, is not taught commonly in my experience.

As has been mentioned, when it comes to health any form of exercise is generally helpful and xing yi is generally more vigorous in practice than the other IMAs.

However, if your cardiologist says you need a stent. I would highy advise complying.

[GrahamB]

Yes, Sha used to practice Pao for his heart - but it did him little good (and his family were upset at his refusal to otherwise treat his heart condition, which is what killed him). The correlation of the elements with the "organs" (meridians really, which is not the same thing) is nonesense - it is something that was grafted on to the system when writing about martial arts came into vogue (i.e. came into style, not the fashion magazine). One can break this stuff down into excruciating detail - for example not only does each finger correlate to a meridian, each joint of each finger correlates to various aspects of that meridian. Excruciating detail, plus vox populi ("everybody knows") does not equate to proof or fact.

I have always thought the same. Practicing any (decent) form of Chinese martial art is good for you - it's exercise! - but linking Beng chun to your liver always seemed a bit woooo to me.

Cerebus,

Having said that, I can see how specific 'qigong' exercise that stretches across the length of a specific meridian, for example, could be said to benefit an organ - e.g. In Ba Duan Jin exercise, bending forward from the waist benefiting the kidneys because meridians in the backs of the legs are being stretched.

Some styles of bagua are very 'stretchy', so in theory I could see the same theory being applied to bagua movements, but in standard 5 elements xingyi if you stretch too much you're not doing it right. However you could modify it with extra stretch for health, in fact James McNeil has a video where he stands in each element finish position as a standing posture and does a slight tweak to it to make it more about health. This is zhan zhuang, rather than moving though.

Best,
G

[GrahamB]

It's this video, but the bit where he shows standing postures isn't in this preview.

http://youtu.be/o_OFjgWnGy8

[Franklin]

So, I was recently reading the book "Bagua Circle Walking Neigong" by Tom Bisio, which is the most thorough and in-depth study I've seen on the Ding Shyr Ba Zhang (mud-walking step 8 palms) of the Liang style of Bagua which I learned in the Tang Shou Tao. In it, Tom goes into detail about which meridians are affected by which palms as well as various illnesses and ailments which can be improved by practicing a particular palm. Has anyone ever done any studies about this subject as it pertains to the elemental fists of Hsing-I? I've heard that Chinese medical practitioners have sometimes taught patients one or another of the 5 elemental fists to strengthen specific organs and meridians, but have not seen much written about this aspect of the art. Any thoughts or input on this?

from personal experience I feel the movement of the five element forms are more linked with the areas of the specific organs rather then the meridians
and the benefit to the corresponding organs comes from the proper body method and power generation
which is actually moving the area of the body that corresponds with the organ

also the five element standing meditation postures also move the area of the corresponding organ with the breath
non forced- breathing naturally- the posture restricts certain areas of the body and opens other areas to move with the breath'

so I don't see the benefits as being meridian based
(but of course exercises the forms does train the meridians and changes the tendons, benefits circulation)

as for teaching patients the five element forms
I have not done it and don't think i would
there are qigong methods that can be taught for imbalance that are easier to learn
and in the five element forms it takes some training to get the power generation and the body movement in the forms
and this is not part of some people's experience- even after many years of practice


Franklin


ps- as for debating if someone's personal health practice was effective or not
that seems pretty pointless to me-

we have "standards of care" but really the standard is what each of us as an individual decides for ourselves
thats why we have the right to refuse treatment and also to check ourselves out of the hospital at anytime....

[cerebus]

My thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, it's all great information and food for thought for me to digest. I'm not asking because I have any particular illness or injury to heal, but simply to deepen my knowledge about an aspect of Hsing-I I had wondered about for some time. Many thanks!

[wayne hansen]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/GD5ROxT9Vxc[/youtube]

I am not endorsing this guys ideas
I just came across this clip

[yeniseri]

Perhaps definitions are in order but here goes:
1. Jing-hereditary mitigation can prolong life through yangsheng/neigong practice
2. qi-hereditary+environment. Yangshengong practice cannot change "heredity'
shen-your present state of being+habitual (environment/dietary) add degree of understanding to the mix providing one has learned some elements of principles/concepts of the original shamanic pre-daoyin/yangsheng modus operandi.

3. This means behavioural preceptions have the abilility (over time/gong) with the proper intervention to prolong life (self cultivation/longevity) through assiduous practice.

Medical Practice needs some level of defining. Knowing the wolves who happen to members of some level of the alleged establishkemt, there are some who would claim people are practicing Hsing-1 without a license (you know-medical practice) hence the definition of "what is meant by medical practice vis a vis , say taijiquan, etc Jus't attempting to clarify

[edededed]

It seems to me that xingyiquan was thought of as a way to merge fighting/training with 5 organ theory; in a general sort of way, each fist seems to try to train the general area of the corresponding organ (for example, paoquan seems to concentrate on the chest region). I think that the effect may be similar to how Max Sick was able to heal himself of numerous maladies via exercise - except that he just extremely exercised himself throughout his whole body, while the xingyiquan idea is that certain exercises can be used to target certain organ systems and thus certain diseases; but of course it is best to do them all.

Li Ziming was able to heal himself of many sicknesses via baguazhang, too - but this was again more of a wholistic method, just practicing everything a whole lot, to fix the body all over.

In a way, all this makes clearer how important exercise is - maybe humans are all sickly because of laziness.

[neijia_boxer]

I wouldnt use hsing-i chuan or pa-kua chang for organ or meridian therapy at all. However I would use the 6 healing sounds qigong as a health exercise maintenance system as ad hoc system to Western and Eastern doctor treatments, but that is just me.

http://www.qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp?-t ... g%20Sounds

[suckinlhbf]

I have a friend at his 67. Six months after he starts XYQ & LHBF, his doctor have told him his heart condition is 15 years younger. He gets his erection back in eight months. Don't care how it happen but it does happen.

[Bob]

You might find this interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nTf9lo ... FcIdhZ0ANA



Overview 八卦 五行氣功 前言 蘇昱彰教學 CHI KUNG 5 elements Master Su Yu Chang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7BjZns ... FcIdhZ0ANA

八卦 五行氣功 火 心臟 蘇昱彰教學 CHI KUNG 4th Fire Heart Master Su Yu-Chang



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hktq5Nz ... A&index=92



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hktq5Nz ... A&index=92

八卦 五行氣功 金 肺臟 蘇昱彰教學 CHI KUNG 1st Metal Lung Master Su Yu Chang

[wayne hansen]

Interesting can u tell me a little more about mr su
His lineage where he is

[Bob]

Sorry but I know virtually nothing about Su Yu Zhang's lineage in the areas of qi gong and nei gong. Perhaps one of his students can answer your inquiry. I did take him for a 18 louhan seminar but we only covered 4 of the 18 in a 2 hour period. I knew some of the exercises from previous training in mantis (we used 18 louhan exercises as part of our "internal" training in mantis).

[bailewen]

My thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, it's all great information and food for thought for me to digest. I'm not asking because I have any particular illness or injury to heal, but simply to deepen my knowledge about an aspect of Hsing-I I had wondered about for some time. Many thanks!

....but...as long as the topic is open...lol. ...

I actually do have a particular "illness" to heal and was thinking about posting a very similar topic to this one.

It turns out, I am not just an old fasioned spaz and I sweat like crazy during training not just because I'm a stinky westerner. Apparently I actually do have a hyperactive thyroid.

Anyone know about what sorts of exercises or foods might be good for that? The traditional medical stuff (meaning western) just says "tough luck". You can either live with it, do surgery to cut out part of your thyroid or medicate for life.

Surely the CMA crowd has some other suggestions?

[wayne hansen]

Go and see a good Chinese doctor who does pulse diagnoses
What you describe is a symptom not a disease
Any advice you get over the net might just make the cause worse in the long run