Hsing-I as a Medical Practice?

[kenneth fish]

Hyperthyroidism is not to be screwed around with. See an endocrinologist, have a complete thyroid panel run (including free t3, t4, t3 uptake), also TPO (thyroid peroxidase auto-antibodies). If possible, a nuclear scan to assess actual thyroid function. While Graves disease is the most common form of hyperthyroid disease, there are other possibilities as well.

[bailewen]

I don't know if I took those specific tests. I'll check when I get home. This thing showed up in a routine physical his spring. Doc thought it looked a bit enlarged, confirmed it with some sort of sonogram looking device and recommended some extra blood tests. I took the tests (not originally include in the physical) and the confirmed high levels for various stuff I don't remember he names of.

They didn't really recommend any particular follow up though.

[fisherman]

Most of the health and organ related practice I've seen in Xingyi seems to be more as a bi-product of training and is very general in tying each element to an organ. Metal/lungs, water/kidneys, fire/heart, wood/liver & stomach, earth/spleen. I think that doing the 5-element neigong pieces I've seen in a slower more qigong way lends itself well to the health practices. The majority of the health stuff I've seen in Xingyi relates more towards the organs, not so much the meridians, but I suppose it could definitely be present.
I'd be curious as well to hear of anyone using say Pi to help get a cold out of their system. Might have to take a stab at it myself next time I catch a sniffle.

[vietle87]

As a medical student/ soon to be resident in a year and kung fu practicioner, I wholeheartedly agree with what Dr. Fish said. I don't put much stake into xing yi practice helping specific organs; I think of it as a holistic exercise that develops the body as a whole. I think of kung fu as strengthening vs. curing. Perhaps due to my Western medical training, I am skeptical when people speak of alternative methods for treating hyperactive thyroid. It is a common cancer; surgery is curative.

[amor]

I have always thought the same. Practicing any (decent) form of Chinese martial art is good for you - it's exercise! - but linking Beng chun to your liver always seemed a bit woooo to me.


G

well if B.K Frantzsis is anything to go by... I think I recall him saying his main teacher, who was a master of Hsing-i, taichi and Bagua, said that he used hsing-i to keep him 'topped up' as a general health routine, in addition to it's fighting capability.

[yeniseri]

For those of us who view <neijiquan> !as a label! as beneficial, it is excellent as being restorative, rehabilitative and therapeutic within the realm of fitness, physical activity and part of longevity. It is one part of x variables so in that regard it is positive. Again, please do a search via PubMed on the benefits associated with taijiquan, tai chi chuan, or qigong. There is wonderful background but this is
only of benefit as part of a long term endeavor as opposed to a passing interest.

[D_Glenn]

Here's a good book that my Bagua teacher quotes from: http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... i-jianqiu/

In XYQ and our YSBGZ it's the whole concept of the element. XYQ starts with Pi Quan/ Metal element and we start with Qian Trigram, which is the metal element. Metal is the lungs, and you can't live for very long without taking a breath, Metal element is typically the element that everyone needs to strengthen and it's the easiest and quickest element to see improvement in, and will in turn benefit the other elements over time. But if you don't first have a strong metal, which is also your 'Po' spirit, then working on any other elements will quickly slide back to their previous state without the 'Po' to hold the work in place.

.

[Franklin]

According to Sun LuTang- from his Xingyi Book

Pi Quan (Splitting Fist) is the Qi of Metal. It is the One Qi's rising and falling. In the first four Sections (of the last chapter) San Ti gives birth to all things. San Ti is always Yin and Yang harmonized. Yin and Yang harmonized is always the top and bottom and the inside and outside combined into One Qi. That is why the shape and image of Taiji is San Ti (three bodies) combined into One. It is the stillness of Qi. Movement gives birth to Qi. It is called Heng (horizontal). Heng is the Earth. Earth gives birth to everything. That is why inside it has the Four Virtues**. It goes along with the numerology of the Five Element cycle. It is the Earth giving birth to Metal. That is why you practice Pi Quan first.

so from stillness- the movement of Qi gives birth to all things
this movement is the Mother - corresponds to the earth element
earth gives birth to metal
so we start to practice with Pi Quan - metal element


**"The Four Virtues are the boxing forms named Pi (Splitting), Beng (Bursting), Zuan (Drilling), Pao (Cannon)."- from elsewhere in Sun's Xingyi Book

[Doc Stier]

And so, there it is!

[neijia_boxer]

... But if you don't first have a strong metal, which is also your 'Po' spirit, then working on any other elements will quickly slide back to their previous state without the 'Po' to hold the work in place.

.

he said PO!!

[mixjourneyman]

Martial arts are not Chinese medicine- but they can have medicinal qualities.

It can be understood like this:

if you practice each of the five elements- each phase will have a unique point in the body upon which it focuses.
In terms of Beng Quan, it emphasizes the hips and waist- so is useful for gaining hip flexibility as well as activating the abdomen in various ways.
Zhuan Quan focuses on the cocyx and kidneys, so it can have the benefit of relaxing the lower back, and strengthening the musculature in and around those areas.
In terms of qigong or neidan stuff, the benefits to be derived from xingyi are collateral- not specific- so if you practice qi gong often, you may get benefit from xingyi- but it isn't a practice which should be given much thought.
Any time you practice CMA, the mind should be in the body- but this is usually quite a general feeling and not specific.
The Yin qiao meridian in the legs of course should always be activated, as should the lower dantian, but these are not things to put too much attention on.
Remember that Chinese medicine is a systemic rather than acute approach to medicine- and also that the original purpose of CMA is not as medicine- so while Chinese medicine has many general benefits, they are not as specific as western medicine (as Dr.Fish said, see a real specialist), and martial arts are even less specific. I often feel that TCM and CMA are great preventative medicines, but in terms of acute diagnosis and care- they are for the most part sorely lacking in many areas in which western medicine excells.

I think that any benefit in a fortifying medicinal perspective to be obtained in martial arts should mostly be a bi product of practice rather than a direct goal within day to day practice.
or more to the point- saying martial arts has relationship to TCM is good, but saying it specifically may be grasping at straws to some extent.

[Miro]

So, I was recently reading the book "Bagua Circle Walking Neigong" by Tom Bisio, which is the most thorough and in-depth study I've seen on the Ding Shyr Ba Zhang (mud-walking step 8 palms) of the Liang style of Bagua which I learned in the Tang Shou Tao. In it, Tom goes into detail about which meridians are affected by which palms as well as various illnesses and ailments which can be improved by practicing a particular palm. Has anyone ever done any studies about this subject as it pertains to the elemental fists of Hsing-I? I've heard that Chinese medical practitioners have sometimes taught patients one or another of the 5 elemental fists to strengthen specific organs and meridians, but have not seen much written about this aspect of the art. Any thoughts or input on this?

Cerebus,

my view is yes, IMA can definitely work with internal organs and related meridians. I was taught this attitude in baguaquan practice by He Jinghan (you can check his book in English, it contains the relations between mother palms and meridians in Yin Fu lineage in baguaquan), I work with this (and even teach my students) in qigong and xingyiquan and I am trying to find it in taijiquan. However, I do not know any serious study about this subject in xingyiquan (and most of the qigong texts about this subject are plainly wrong and incorrect).
Personally, I do not think that teaching the patients some of 5 element fists to strenthen specific organs and meridians can really help. To feel the organs and meridians is learned skills (it is not natural skills) and it takes quite a long time to learn it well. So to teach some patients particular fists is quite a problem, it seems to me like blind trial - maybe sometimes it can work but most probably it will not work. To make it work requires thorough study of one's own body, to be able to feel all internal organs and meridians and not just particular ones affected by illness. It can work very well for martial artist who is also a serious practitioner of TCM but perhaps not for common patients. Of course it is possible to say to patient that he/she should practice for example pi quan and to explain s/he should lean agaist lungs (but not heart), to make slight pressure on the lungs as well as string from chest to thumb but it is hard to believe s/he will be actually able to do that... In my personal clinic practice (I do tuina, acupuncture and herbs) sometimes I teach my patients simple movements to alleviate pain or health problems but those are mostly gymnastic or qigong movements related to muscles and tendons, not related to internal organs or meridians.
It is not so difficult to write a book on this topic (relationship between 5 elements and organs/meridians and illnesses from the view of xingyiquan) for such person (who is both martial artist and practitioner of TCM), however, I do not see too big profit (sense) to write such book - it will not help to anyone (the patients will not be able to use practically those informations and those who know how to use it, they do not need similar book). It is much better and easier to find some person and study with him (for example Tom Bisio, although I never met him, did not read anything from him so I can not really say but people say he knows). Good luck.

Miro

[Miro]

I don't practice Xing Yi so I can't really comment on that specifically. However, I do practice Taiji and I have patients learn different silk reeling exercises as a part of their clinical treatment. I so this since, as I was taught, different silk reeling patterns stimulate specific acupuncture points. I get quite good effect doing this, but also usually have these same patients practice things like basic Qigong exercises, acupressure, patting (paida), and moxibustion (at home).
Henry

Henry,

could you write more about this subject, please? Namely - what differences are in various silk reeling patterns and how they stimulate specific acupuncture points? Or point to me some articles or other sources, if you can. Thanks a lot.

Miro

[wayne hansen]

+1

[D_Glenn]

... so Metal is the Lungs; Skin and lining of the lungs; mental fortitude and physical constitution. It's dealing with the most basic energy in the form of 空氣 Kōng Qì (atmoshpere/ air qi) which is oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide that we breathe in and use for metabolic processes. In front of the Metal Element is the Earth Element and you don't really need to worry about that except to eat a proper diet and follow the dietary guidelines for the spleen and stomach, which is just a variety of healthy foods and then the metabolic processes of oxygen and the food we ingest will be more efficient.

So Metal is about getting the 衛氣 Wei qi (defensive qi) of the exterior of the body healthy and it does this in a physical manner through movement, posture, and repetitive large movements of opening and closing the intercostals of the ribcage and stretching and retracting the limbs of the body, but it also does this internally by appeasing the Fire Element (Heart, Pericardium, Blood vessels, veins, capillary system) and not insulting it, in order to increase the cardiovascular and unblock the smaller network of capillaries that run to the extremities, which will allow 空氣 Kōng Qì (Air Qi) to reach to more muscles and tissues of the body.

So this is done by drilling Santishi and drilling Piquan, over and over, for at least two 100 day cycles (100 days is 90 days/ 3 months with 10 days added for good measure).

So in order to not insult the Fire Element the chest and sternum (Middle Dantian) must be hollowed and kept relax, Energy and tension aren't held in the chest and is instead kept in the Lower Dantian. We don't ever want to actually think about our heart and it's function as you don't want to accidentally cause damage. We can think about the pericardium (the muscle that encases and protects the heart), but only think about keeping it relaxed so that it has the energy to do it's job when the time comes (autonomously contracting when, say, someone punches your chest).

The other thing is to practice slow, medium, and fast, but never angry, just calm. Use the 'Yi' to calmly move more blood to the muscles and tissues and circulate it around the body. Don't use rage, loud music, or any other forms of stimulation or outside motivation like you see in other exercise programs or fads. Why? Because anybody can move more blood out into the extremities and fingers, but what's more important is to build and promote the system and connections that bring the blood flow back to the heart, and energy back to the lower dantian. People focus on the vessels but neglect the veins. (Paida Gong - Patting and Hitting Exercise, is a good example to quickly get blood out but more time should be spent on the closing down part, which is often neglected and why it's not advised to practice in these later martial arts XYQ, Baguazhang.)

Working on other Element's respective organ complexes- Water Element (Kidney, Urinary Bladder, fluid balance, blood Ph, etc.) is done indirectly by eating healthy, drinking good water, and working on the metal element. It's called water but it's actually more about the oily, lubricating fluids of the body, which consist of very little water. Look at a Yam (which is also good for providing Yin Fluids to our bodies), it's hard, solid, and seems relatively dry when you cut the raw Yam open, but gradually as you start to slowly cook it, the cell walls break open and oily fluids within, start to seep out and this is when you want to stop cooking at consume it because these oils quickly burn and cook away and leave just the dry husk behind. Our bodies are similar to this and when we talk about the Water Element we want to promote oils but keep them cool to warm (viscous) but not let them get cold where they congeal, nor hot where they just burn away.

So indirectly work on the health of the Water Element but to say that there's a posture or qi gong exercise that directly works on it, is misleading. You can only work on Water after you've built up Metal, and then it's more of a manner or way of practicing. If someone has genetic kidney problems then they'll want to begin this manner of practice sooner.

Think about diseases or illnesses that affect the Kidney's or are associated with it. They take years to manifest. Where ills that affect the lungs can manifest in hours. So our ability to directly affect an organ's health is also in these same timelines. So it's the whole of one's training practices, over years of time, that will gradually improve the functioning of the organ complexes. It's more important to follow the guidelines, no matter how impractical they may seem, because training and Practicing improperly and then one can quickly find themselves following the 'Insulting Cycle' or the 'Destructive Cycles' and straying off of the 'Creation Cycle', which is the goal.



.

.