IMA vs Reality

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:22 pm

one thing I;ve noted here is that there seems to be an assumption that those who speak of
"higher level" skill sets have never done trained with or done any of the basic work in other arts.
many have BTDT, and have come to a point where what they do and have found, is very different 8-) .

So different that in some cases depending on level it changes most of the ideas and concepts
that where once held as being the final point, instead of just a point along the way.

It's a given that people should be able understand what the use is for, in most demos discussions
the point is trying to show distinctions between it and other methods....

if they can get past it being as some might say " better ", and understand it as just being " different", it would
go a long way in helping to find, and understand why those that practice on this level
put so much time into the development of it, and why there really are so few people IME who
got to the point where their work is really functional in the MA sense, and fewer that are very public
about it.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby daniel pfister on Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:23 pm

Bodywork wrote:I've read the O.P. blog post and I call bullshit.
Why?

1. I ....am.... his example of the wrestler or MMA guy (who ties people up in knotts, or knocks them out).
BUT.....
2. I....am... the internal guy training things I have not seen being openly taught and I have NEVER seen taught in external arts.

I am NOT into being anyone's grand pooba sifu, but I'm not going to sit idle while some one tells me the body skills in the internal arts are the same as Greco Roman wrestling or TKD at the mall. That's just simply not true.

So...
I think a better argument would be:
1. Learn how to fight or at least spar, well if you're going to call yourself a martial artist.
Then
2. Learn higher level body skills to support that effort.

Why does it always... Fucking always... as in all the time... have to be an either/ or, one dimensional argument with so many people here?
How about we get our shit together and go have fun and do both. Gees.
Dan


+1
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby XiaoXiong on Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:10 pm

You're not totally alone Dan. Some of us are doing the same thing. The problem I keep having is people are pidgon holed into paradigms that they have a hard time shedding. Mental flexibility is hard to come by. Martial artists are as dogmatic as any other kind of believer/follower group.
Jess
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:40 pm

Bodywork wrote:I've read the O.P. blog post and I call bullshit.
Why?

1. I ....am.... his example of the wrestler or MMA guy (who ties people up in knotts, or knocks them out).
BUT.....
2. I....am... the internal guy training things I have not seen being openly taught and I have NEVER seen taught in external arts.

I am NOT into being anyone's grand pooba sifu, but I'm not going to sit idle while some one tells me the body skills in the internal arts are the same as Greco Roman wrestling or TKD at the mall. That's just simply not true.

So...
I think a better argument would be:
1. Learn how to fight or at least spar, well if you're going to call yourself a martial artist.
Then
2. Learn higher level body skills to support that effort.

Why does it always... Fucking always... as in all the time... have to be an either/ or, one dimensional argument with so many people here?
How about we get our shit together and go have fun and do both. Gees.
Dan


agree

but if "thats simply not true" why not point out why its not using your own frame work
to explain it?

in this medium, unless its videoed with some interaction by those who post it to help explain or answer questions or is sufficiently addressed through words, it does little
to just point out that "thats simply not true"

you address this broad, complaining about it, somehow feeling your not part of it.
why not help to make it better by addressing it as you have in the past.

im sure many people would benefit from it, and others might find a voice that helps them
to explain the things they do but may not be able to articulate as well as some of your past writings.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby XiaoXiong on Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:18 pm

I wish Dan would address this, but honestly I suspect it's not worth his time and patience to him.
Jess
Last edited by XiaoXiong on Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby willywrong on Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:43 pm

XiaoXiong wrote:I wish Dan would address this, but honestly I suspect it's not worth his time and patience to him.
Jess


Just curious Jess does the hubris belong to Dan or you? :)
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby XiaoXiong on Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:34 pm

No
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:07 am

Imagine god comes to earth briefly to tell two guys the true secret of life,
He tells them both at the same time and the guy on the left hears an intonation on one word differently than the guy on the right.
They both have students and although their message is basically the same but heard slightly differently, their students develop rifts in understanding.
each individual student in each school also develops his own ideas, and finally the unity of the original message is destroyed and everyone fights.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:14 am

when I started studying with Yang Hai,
he told me several things:
1: if you practice long and hard, you will eventually become stronger and lose weight
2: If you practice application enough, you will have basic self defense skills
3: Internal martial arts follow a holistic principle, so although they are still "martial" in nature, they also pour over into other areas of life.

Each and every one of those things was true.
Examples:
1: In one year I managed to lose 70 lbs. I kept 50 of it off for the long term. I can also effortlessly lift women into the air and carry them around like they were a sack of sexy potatoes.
2: I was attacked in the street in Shanghai last year (of course on nanjing donglu, over course by a con man farmer) - I simply blocked the punch, yelled at them in Chinese and walked away. Nobody got taken down, put in a triangle, or karate chopped - yet I still survived.
3: martial arts have done wonderful things for my level of ability to live in the world. It is easier for me to socialize, I am not as sensitive as before, and after both winning and losing lots of matches, I have a better understanding of where I am at.

I think when people write big long articles about lies in the martial arts, they must be reflecting parts of themselves that are not confident.
Maybe dude got conned before, or he just has a small penis - but at the end of the day, telling people they are wrong without first appraising their situation is just one more dim and uneducated piece of lunacy to add to the pile of reasons why I don't hang out with "martial artists" anymore.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby leifeng on Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:38 am

In that article I can smell Gwai lou from 10000 miles away.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby Doc Stier on Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:04 am

Hahaha! LOL @ leifeng. :D
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby Doc Stier on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:06 am

However you may judge the merits of the OP article, or the lack thereof to be, it goes without saying of course that non-Chinese practitioners and teachers will never be capable of achieving any genuine expertise or knowledge, right? ;)

Sheesh! I thought that ethnic bubble of racial bias and discrimination was clearly burst a long time ago! :/
Last edited by Doc Stier on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby leifeng on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:27 am

However you may judge the merits of the OP article, or the lack thereof to be, it goes without saying of course that non-Chinese practitioners and teachers will never be capable of achieving any genuine expertise or knowledge, right?


No it doesn't have anything to do with race. Gwai Lou is a state of mind.
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby Doc Stier on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:55 am

So you now say, but it has always been a derogatory term, and it always will be in the generally accepted understanding of its meaning for most people. :/
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Re: IMA vs Reality

Postby RobP2 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:08 am

leifeng wrote:
No it doesn't have anything to do with race. Gwai Lou is a state of mind.


You mean like being a total a-hole?
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