Wow, what a day.

[Partridge_Run]

Nice post, Dspyrido.

At the end of the day skill is skill. I just think that we should - at the least - work towards [i]not[i] obfuscating the nature of the set of skills contained in good IMA. Among other things, that means not randomly attaching whole, more or less, well-baked metaphysical systems to them.
That hasn't really served the IMAs all that well in modern history...

[flints]

I thought this was a discussion, not a vote. You might consider taking a class with Rasmus and then telling him what you think of his randomly attached more or less baked metaphysical system. (In full disclosure, I am not a student of his beyond having taken his very impressive two day seminar.) Or other instructors who foot back their practice to classical texts in taoism and who have developed a very mysterious powerful ability. It seems to be always possible to reduce described events to one's own experiences. But experiences are always partial and therefore prone to error. Or perhaps I have misunderstood?

[dspyrido]

@dspyrido: I don't think Mark would agree with your explanation nor would others I know. Although Mark does work at the level you describe -- grounded power, uses the legs, etc. -- there are those that think that use of intent to lead chi is a usable method, though Mark might call it the intent to move the magnetic or electric forces. Not trying to start and argument over who is correct, just trying to point out that what you say does not encompass what he teaches. And I believe that Mark is correct in this in part from having felt it from him and having felt it from others.

That said, peacedog has more experience with Mark and may have a different view which I would consider more authoritative.

This ain't an attack on mark and I dont think it's fair for me to go down this path as he is not around.

But if you feel that you can explain what you mean by electric or magnetic forces then I am happy to continue this. But before you do please be clear - is this a literal use of the terms or a metaphoric teaching aid? The way you state it above sounds very literal....

[Simon]

Mark goes through all these questions on his videos on youtube. If it assists in understanding then go with it. If it doesnt then no worries use whatever terms make sense to you. Really with Marks approach the Mind and feeling aspect are very improtant as he discusses in his videos. Electric expansive or magnetic contracting are just the lables put to the feelings. Shrink expand might do just as well for others but Electric and and Magnetic are used in this case due to the foundation being built on Hermetic teachings which use these terms for the two primary forces.

Guys check his site for more info: http://markrasmus.com/

[flints]

Just to be clear, I don't come from the hermetic tradition and don't use the terms electric and magnetic. Having picked up Bardon's Introduction to Hermetics, I have learned that those are metaphysical concepts that imbue their physical cognates but are in fact elemental properties inherent in a number of things. etc. Me, I am struggling through discovering what yin and yang are. That said, I experienced with Mark his using energy that is beyond good structure and good physical techniques. I find some people can't account for that in their experience. I believe there is a video on his website where after demonstrating using a more physical approach to moving someone, he then uses "intent." I felt that from him during his seminar and cannot explain it in terms of anything having to do with structure or other external factors. Again, I may be misunderstanding any or all of what people are driving at.

[DeusTrismegistus]

Magnetic and electric are terms with very real meanings from western esotericism. Although I have never seen a clear definition the meaning can be gleaned from enough study and experience. Magnetic basically refers to attractive and repulsive energy. Like attracts like. Electric refers to a charge that something has. For example a talisman could be charged with an energy to attract a certain quality, like patience. These terms are related to actual magnetic and electric energy from physics but not identical.

In western magic systems you use intent combined with symbology and ritual to charge a talisman with the magnetic forces you want. In martial arts you use intent to charge your body with the magnetic forces you want. This really doesn't need to be difficult or obtuse either. An example would be something like someone wanting to start a fight. The intent to start a fight causes changes in physical behavior that we can pick up on. The bully hides their intent with their words most times, which combined with conditioning for politeness allows them to get close enough to sucker punch someone.

Whether we are talking about western or eastern systems it is important to realize that they are classification systems. Most are valid systems and have very definite similarity. The biggest difference I have experienced in western vs eastern systems is simply one of focus. Eastern systems work more inside the body, which later may manifest outside the body. Western systems focus outside the body which causes changes inside the body.

As for similarities, a simple example. The Tree of Life has three pillars. The Pillar of Severity would be yin energy, the Pillar of Mercy would be Yang energy, the Middle Pillar would be balanced yin and yang energy.

[windwalker]

edited :
distraction from the topic.

[JWang]

I emailed Mark Rasmus a few weeks ago to inquire about his hermetics, and he recommended Peacedog as one of 2 locals in the DC/MD/VA region who is familiar with his practice. Spent the past 2 weekends training with Peacedog, here are some impressions so far:

Peacedog showed a series of fascia stretching exercises for opening things up, and some of it was reminiscent of my previous experience in wing chun, yiquan, and xingyi zhanzhuang. The new ideas, namely the "magnetic" stretches, really seemed to tackle some weaknesses that I sense in my structure. We also started some meditation work, which was clearly instructed and easy to learn.

The overall experience has been very positive because the hermetics doesn't conflict at all with my existing IMA background, but gives me tools & ideas to deepen my existing practices. The hermetics paradigm has some new terminology for familiar themes (like yin/yang), and appears to be quite systematic and precise in its approach. There were quite a few "aha" moments where I understood conceptually what was shown to me years ago that I failed to grasp at the time. Maybe it's language, presentation, etc., but for whatever reason the approach resulted in a few lightbulbs going on during our sessions.

In summary, I see the value of the material so far as not just some novel exercises, but one of a conceptual framework that appears quite deep, direct and clear in its approach. Peacedog is a clear and open instructor who wants you to get it, so I'd definitely recommend talking to him if you're curious about hermetics or meditative work in general.