BGZ Circle Walking=Moving Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF)

[D_Glenn]

The core or basics of Baguazhang's Circle Walking stem from older Daoist exercises/ Daoyin (Guiding and Leading), and then around that core the Martial Strengthening and Skill Training were added so that the practice 'Kills two birds with one stone'.

This basic function is to tuck under one's tailbone/ sacrum (roll the buttocks under); press or round out the back of the waist or lumbar part of the spine (yaobei); concave/ hollow the chest to relax the pericardium; but also expand or pull out the back part of your ribcage so the lungs are still given room to inhale, (essentially breathing into your back, instead of puffing up the chest); bring the crown of your head (Baihui point) to the uppermost top by lengthening the vertebrae of your neck and tucking your chin. And then hold these postural requirements as you walk around a point in the center and follow about a 6 foot (2 meter) diameter circle. Which will open and close the 'kua' (both hips). When the inside leg and hip move forward the 'kua' is opening; when the outside leg and hip move forward the 'kua' is closing. This rhythmic stepping/ opening & closing will squeeze and put pressure on one's sacrum, and will, with many total days and hours of practice, and over the course of time in each daily session, begin to move the Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF).

In Daoist terminology this is 'Surging water (marrow) upward', or sending 'Shen' (spirit) up the 'Penetrating Channel' and 'Governing Vessel' (Chong & Du Mai), and when closing the practice bring the energy and 'shen' back down the front of the 'Chong' and 'Conception Vessel' (Ren Mai).

When one tucks their tailbone under and presses out their lumbar (opening Mingmen Point), this opens what is called the 'Lower Passage'. So from tip of the tailbone to lowest Thoracic vertebrae is the 'Lower Passage'.

Hollowing the chest and expanding the back of the thoracic vertbrae opens the 'Middle Passage' and is essentially the thoracic vertebrae.

Lengthening the cervical vertebrae and tucking the chin opens the 'Upper Passage', and is the cervical vertebrae and into the brain, roughly around the pituitary gland (mud pill palace) but represents the whole portion of the inside of the cranium.

So one is walking around the circle, quickly changing directions when needed, and it takes about 20 minutes for the energy to move from Huiyin point up passed Mingmen point. This phase and period of time is called 'A goat pulling a cart', as it's awkward, a little but clumsy as your legs are stiff. It's like watching a goat trying to awkwardly drag around a cart. And mentally you feel like the goat as you don't won't to be doing this, your mind wanders and you think of million other things you would rather be doing, but focus and endure this phase and don't really worry about exerting too much, but try focusing on the body requirements, and the martial requirements for the posture you're holding.

This awkward phase will quickly transition to where more blood is moving around and you want to start walking faster and faster. The rhythm and cadence is perfect and you just want to walk, almost run around the circle because it feels so good and stimulating. This is when the energy is moving through the 'Middle Passage' and is going past the area of your heart. It's crucial to not suddenly stop practicing during this phase, so pay attention to your breathing as you don't want to gas out or have your breath come up into your chest. This is where you can focus on and make it a cardiovascular or aerobic workout but know that you can't just stop. If you have to stop then it's really important to properly wind down and close the practice, which is about 10 minutes of walking, and still another good amount of time before you sit down or go do another activity. This phase is also the reason that it's really important to practice in a quiet place with no distractions, a calm, serene place and ideally the same place everyday as the heart area can get too excited, or rather, unbeknownst to you, pull the distracting sounds into your subconscious mind, which can cause mild (nightmares) to serious mental conditions or 'Shen disturnance' over time.

Going through the 'Middle Passage' takes about 20 minutes, but it also depends on the months or years that you've been practicing and your energy level. If you have a lot of excess energy or excitement that day, then you may find yourself wanting to spend more time going fast around the circle. This phase is called 'A Deer pulling a cart' and represents the picture of trying to harness a cart to a wild deer and it will just run as fast as it can until the cart breaks away.

As suddenly as you found yourself passing from the Lower into the Middle Passage, you will find yourself passing the Middle and into the Upper Passage. This will slow you down, and your body will feel heavy, strong, and powerful. Each step feels like crushing and plowing your way around the circle. There will be more strength in your arms and their Martial requirements can be increased. This phase is called 'An Oxen pulling a Cart' and it's the only animal that doesn't mind being harnessed to a heavy cart and were bred for the task. This can also be likened to a heavy plow and the Oxen is dragging it through mud fields to plant seeds in it's wake. This is where you are truly doing the 'Mud-plowing step' (aka mud wading stepping). And it's taken you so long to get to this point that you want to make it worth and spend at least 20 minutes or more, in this phase, where you are truly strengthening and building increasing your martial skills, but mentally it's also where your mind is clearing out the muck, and in Western medical terms this may actually be activating the Glymphatic system. This phase is where you are mentally alert, happy, content, and even though getting to this point was physically demanding, and you may have been tired before you began, you now feel fully rested, as if you just had a full night's sleep.

In Baguazhang we take advantage of this movement of CSF to benefit the physical demands of the martial practices but in many ways the mental and spiritual side of it is more important. And it's the spiritual side of the practice that makes it not something to be taken lightly, or done half-assed. If you only practiced for 30 or 40 minutes you may only be getting up to the phase where you're in the 'Middle Passage' and only bringing energy up to this point will have negative effects on your health and emotional state. You have to practice until you reach the 3rd phase because then gravity takes over and everything, on it's own accord, begins to drain down the 'Conception and front of the Penetrating vessel, back to the Dantian. [The other important requirement, in order to close everything down and energetically to bring this energy back around the front, it's important to press the tip of tongue into the roof of your mouth, right behind the hard palate where there's a little ledge and the soft palate starts. This is called 'Connecting the Magpie Bridge' and is important for bringing energy out of your brain. But this requirement should be done during the whole session, not just at the end.] And you will naturally feel when it's time to stop and then just do the closing practice for about 5 minutes. But don't really go do any striking or other martial practices for at least another 10-20 minutes because you just did one of the most powerful 'Daoyin' that there is and you should let your body go back to normal.

This is also the reason that skipping more than 3 days may begin to make you feel ill, or sick without it's daily Daoyin that it's grown accustomed to.


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[amor]

Devlin, Awesome post, simply.
Just one question about being forced to stop at the middle or any passage. Since you're mostly breathing into the back though out the entire session one should not be overly concerned about it unless you got breath stuck in the chest? But all in all, a quick short 10 mins of normal walking should suffice and no other standing zhan zhuang or any other daoyin would be necessary if you need to terminate the session abruptly...just a calm normal walk?

[yeniseri]

Walking the circle per the massaging, bending, and undulating qualities do have an effect on lymph but it is secondary despite being positive for health and martial benefit. TCM does not mention lymph, CNS, SNS, or what we know as 'scientific knowledge' or information but it is safe to say that, as part of the musculoskeletal sysyem, all of these are at work for greater benefit, health, martial, rehabilitative or restorative.
Thanks

[D_Glenn]

Just one question about being forced to stop at the middle or any passage. Since you're mostly breathing into the back though out the entire session one should not be overly concerned about it unless you got breath stuck in the chest?

You should be breathing down too, letting the diaphragm go into your abdomen. Martially though your dantian should be wrapped back in and this will make it so you can't really see your abdomen moving in and out. Just worry about your breath not becoming too rapid. 'Keeping the Qi in the Dantian' (Means keep the Air in the dantian -- meaning don't lose your breath), and keep your Dantian full, or wrapped back-in. These two things go hand in hand.

But all in all, a quick short 10 mins of normal walking should suffice and no other standing zhan zhuang or any other daoyin would be necessary if you need to terminate the session abruptly...just a calm normal walk?

Just walking normal, upright, while still going around in a circle, not looking anywhere in particular so that you equilibrium comes back to normal is the normal way to warm up and cool down during a circle walking session. You can do some standard qigong closings where your hands rise up, then come down your center line, as if you were gathering and pressing everything back into your dantian.

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[D_Glenn]

Walking the circle per the massaging, bending, and undulating qualities do have an effect on lymph but it is secondary despite being positive for health and martial benefit. TCM does not mention lymph, CNS, SNS, or what we know as 'scientific knowledge' or information but it is safe to say that, as part of the musculoskeletal sysyem, all of these are at work for greater benefit, health, martial, rehabilitative or restorative.
Thanks

I don't really know anything about TCM, other than what I've gleaned over the years from having so many acupuncture treatments done on myself.

I'm talking about the Daoist concepts of Daoyin (Exercises to guide and lead), and a lot of this carries over into Tuina (Pressing & Grasping Bodywork).

They use a lot of the same terminology so I just go with the standards because it's too difficult to use the Daoist terms, and I don't even really know them to be honest.

TCM uses the 經脈 Jing Mai meridians. When talking about Daoyin (physical movements aka qigong) we are more referring to the 絡脈 Luo Mai which are more about the tangible movements of fluid in the body, which can have an effect on the lymph fluids, and blood, but is really it's own thing - Interstitial fluids.

Physical movements, which in turn, act on these 絡脈 Luo Mai can then, in turn, influence the movement of qi in the 經脈 Jing Mai. And TCM can needle or moxa the 經脈 Jing Mai and cause them to influence the 絡脈 Luo Mai channels. So there is some overlap. But for the record I'm not ever really referring to TCM. I'm only talking about the Daoist Daoyin (Exercises to guide and lead) that are the basis of Baguazhang.

For what it's worth (FWIW)

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[yeniseri]

I don't really know anything about TCM, other than what I've gleaned over the years from having so many acupuncture treatments done on myself.
I'm talking about the Daoist concepts of Daoyin (Exercises to guide and lead), and a lot of this carries over into Tuina (Pressing & Grasping Bodywork).
They use a lot of the same terminology so I just go with the standards because it's too difficult to use the Daoist terms, and I don't even really know them to be honest.
TCM uses the 經脈 Jing Mai meridians. When talking about Daoyin (physical movements aka qigong) we are more referring to the 絡脈 Luo Mai which are more about the tangible movements of fluid in the body, which can have an effect on the lymph fluids, and blood, but is really it's own thing - Interstitial fluids.

Physical movements, which in turn, act on these 絡脈 Luo Mai can then, in turn, influence the movement of qi in the 經脈 Jing Mai. And TCM can needle or moxa the 經脈 Jing Mai and cause them to influence the 絡脈 Luo Mai channels. So there is some overlap. But for the record I'm not ever really referring to TCM. I'm only talking about the Daoist Daoyin (Exercises to guide and lead) that are the basis of Baguazhang.

For what it's worth (FWIW)

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Your points are excellent only because what we call qigong today, as you already know, was named daoyin, neigong, neiyanggong, yangshengong, etc along with a juxtaposition of words and phrases that denoted elements, varieties and/or type of self cultivation.
There is a body of work though retroactively re-engineered within the concepts of what is called recently Meditative Movement though based on non scientific principles but applied to jingluo/meridian dynamics and it is sensible.

Here is one link:
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/pap ... ercise.pdf

[Andy_S]

D_Glenn:

Textbook detail, thanks, and your description of the upper-body posture/mechanic is identical to that striven for in Taiji.

But as we are talking about spinal fluids, is the movement of the lower body (ie circle walking in your post) strictly necessary to motivate the CSF? Taiji maintains this upper body posture while practicing the form, as does (I think) HsingI when walking the five elements. To put it another way: Are the benefits circle-walking specific? Or can one get these benefits from Taiji, Bagua, HsingI or simple ZZ (which also adopts the upper-body posture described)?


Another issue

My understanding is that ANY time spent doing IMA is good - even if you can only squeeze in 20 or five minutes, it is still good. You seem to suggest that by trapping" the fluid in a certain section of the spine, a short session can actually create negative side effects. This leads on the question: What is the optimum timing for training? In Chen Taiji, the old stories state that the masters did solo forms for around 10 reps, non-stop, per session, which would take around two and a half hours (if we assume 15 mins per form), so that might be about optimal timing for training. (They also trained in both morning and evening.)

So:
Is a short session of IMA actually harmful?
What do you reckon is the actual optimum training time? Or is this purely up to the practitioner?

[Alexatron]

Thank you for a great post (the sort of post I joined up for). You've expanded on a lot of what my teacher has been saying and its reassuring to hear it from another source. The more I learn about BGZ the more I understand why it takes a long term commitment to become proficient at it - much more so IMHO than the 'external' hard styles I've trained in prior to starting BGZ and Taiiji.

[D_Glenn]

D_Glenn:

Textbook detail, thanks, and your description of the upper-body posture/mechanic is identical to that striven for in Taiji.

But as we are talking about spinal fluids, is the movement of the lower body (ie circle walking in your post) strictly necessary to motivate the CSF? Taiji maintains this upper body posture while practicing the form, as does (I think) HsingI when walking the five elements. To put it another way: Are the benefits circle-walking specific? Or can one get these benefits from Taiji, Bagua, HsingI or simple ZZ (which also adopts the upper-body posture described)?

I think what's happening in the lower body is necessary but this type of circle walking is, for lack of a better word, intense. The only other equivalent of this that I can think of off hand would be our seated exercises where you use the aligned-knees sitting posture so that you can comfortably keep your tailbone tucked and then lean forward and backward per the regimen to open the passages.

Another issue

My understanding is that ANY time spent doing IMA is good - even if you can only squeeze in 20 or five minutes, it is still good. You seem to suggest that by trapping" the fluid in a certain section of the spine, a short session can actually create negative side effects. This leads on the question: What is the optimum timing for training? In Chen Taiji, the old stories state that the masters did solo forms for around 10 reps, non-stop, per session, which would take around two and a half hours (if we assume 15 mins per form), so that might be about optimal timing for training. (They also trained in both morning and evening.)
So:
Is a short session of IMA actually harmful?
What do you reckon is the actual optimum training time? Or is this purely up to the practitioner?

Harmful? Not at all.
I didn't mean to suggest that you trap fluid in a certain section of the spine. Think of it more as- internal energy that's slowly moving past your heart aka fire element, and all that will entail if you look at the 5 Spirits.

If you're practicing BGZ and you only have 20 minutes to practice then you would want to do some standing, striking drills, or forms. If you wanted to do Circle Walking, or the seated daoyin I mentioned, you would want at least an hour or more window of time so that you can get through the whole thing. Circle Walking is a whole process but in the beginning because it takes so much physical effort to learn how to step, find the strength in your arms to just hold them up, get past the stages of being dizzy, etc. that you can just do it for 10 to 15 minutes. It's when you get past all that and reach the stage where you just want to run around the circle that you need to be aware of these things.

We can achieve something similar when doing our striking drills but this requires knowing how to use the 'Bolang Jin' (Surging Wave Force) of the spinal column and this takes a longer window of time (2 hours or so) to reach a similar mental state because it's, in a sense, forcing it, but because it's forcing it you don't really have to worry about the heart fire thing. So Xingyi may achieve something similar when doing their line striking drills, and if you look at the Chen TJQ forms- opening and closing the Kua, intermittent usage of 'Bolang Jin' spread throughout the forms. The 2nd form will be even better since there's even more usage of 'Bolang Jin'.

There's a lot of texts with warnings about bringing energy around the heart but it's hard to translate, or put into a perspective that can be understood. One of the most simplest of the symptoms to identify is if your practice is causing you insomnia.
I've always practiced my Circle Walking in the evening and I used to just reach the middle point and then use that energy to go on to blast out some striking drills, etc. but I couldn't sleep that night either. Since I've been doing a complete circle walking session I can fall asleep like a baby.

But closing down any practice, like I recommended is important, because as I mentioned in a different thread- anyone can move blood out to their extremities, but quickly bringing it back-in is the difficult part and takes time spent training (gong fu) as the blood comes back through the veins and you can't force it to come back. So always leave a little extra time to close-down every practice and really focus on relaxing.

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[kenneth fish]

I am afraid that CSF movement is not influenced by the mechanism you describe to any significant degree. While I am aware that your attempt to correlate TCM with anatomy and physiology is well meant, its very much off base.

[D_Glenn]

Ken,
Yes. I regret using the word 'Moving', I thought about editing that but it might be better to just explain it in a different way. Or quote some more documents so people can have a better understanding of what's going on.

The postural requirements are basically simulating a fetal position, which then with time and relaxation, combined with regimined body mechanics, affect the movements of interstitial fluids throughout the whole body, that then by their own mechanisms, affect the CSF inside the cranium.

Movement up the spine and through the passages is really just an energetic one and is more metaphor then physical reality and isn't anything that can be felt.

That's why I wanted to post this thread here - to figure out how it could be misunderstood.

Thanks.
Got to go get some work done now but will continue later...


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[kenneth fish]

Just FYI: interstitial fluid in the CNS does not communicate with the interstitial fluid of the rest of the body. CSF is produced within the brain and drains into the general lymphatic circulat Here is a decent, recent article that is pretty clear on the subject: http://www.fluidsbarrierscns.com/content/7/1/1

[D_Glenn]

^ I was just going to add that the Daoist model and pictures show everything moving from bottom to top, where in actuality substances move from top to bottom.

The Daoist methods work in reverse but I think that's the only way to trick your own body into these physiological states, that it wouldn't normally be in.

The goal is to basically achieving a whole body relaxation.

Thanks for the link. Can't check it on my phone now but later.

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[D_Glenn]

Alright, back at the laptop.

The key part of my theory and reason I posted this is because of the 2012 discovery of what is called the "Glymphatic System", since there is no Lymphatic System in the brain, they added the 'G' to signify that it's like the way the lymphatic system functions but relies on the Glial cells in the brain, but rids the brain of toxins that build up during the day. Here's a better link than the wikipedia one: http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2013/ninds-17.htm

The 'Moving of CSF' is all happening in the brain.

I didn't mean to imply that there is movement happening within the spinal column.


The Chong meridian is not really identified in the upper parts of the torso, some people have it going up the center of the spinal column; Some people have 2 channels going up each side of the spinal column (kind of like a deeper UB channel); Some people have it in front of the spinal column but that's also where some people have the Zhong (Central) Meridian going. Point being - that it's not really important to know exactly where it is but that it's an energy that comes up from the Dantian and eventually into the brain.

We use Circle Walking to first cultivate our Dantian, so it's not really known for sure if this only occurs after that, as it takes roughly the same amount of time to get over the dizzy/ disorientated phase of initial circle walking practice as it does to cultivate one's Dantian. And the energy is 炁 Qì, which is stored in the dantian. Which, in the cultivation cycle is: 精 Jing -> 氣 Qi -> 神 Shen -> 炁 Qi.

Getting back to Andy's question about whether it's the same in other styles, I personally wouldn't know since I've only practiced Baguazhang, but there are Chinese people who have studied multiple styles and we can look at what they've written. When you get in that "Oxen pulling a cart" phase, everything is 'Chen' (sinking) downward, and it's this feeling of sinking yet full of strength that is described as being in a true state of 'Song' (relaxed). So it is something that is sought after in the IMAs, only Circle Walking is maybe just the most efficient way to get there, since so many other styles had incorporated Circle Walking into their styles after practicing it.


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[KEND]

Thanks for the article Ken, it was pretty dense but there is some interesting info. I assumed the benefits in BGZ were in blood circulation[ the arched foot acting as a pump for the lower extremities] and the lymph system . Also Interesting that there are a number of neuropeptides in the fluid, is the fluid acting as a conduit for these substances.