notes from recent Daoism seminar.

[Wanderingdragon]

This thread has been an excellent conversation and goes a long way in recognizing the reality of the mental, intellectual and physical, being, all indeed very much the reality of the mundane and that which surely must be accomplished before moving on to the next plane, a stop at the pass as D so elegantly states it. This is the place where all things average live, everything else, not matter the gift or the talent is the effort it takes to move beyond this plane

[D_Glenn]

This thread has been an excellent conversation and goes a long way in recognizing the reality of the mental, intellectual and physical, being, all indeed very much the reality of the mundane and that which surely must be accomplished before moving on to the next plane, a stop at the pass as D so elegantly states it. This is the place where all things average live, everything else, not matter the gift or the talent is the effort it takes to move beyond this plane

That's kind of Gloomy but a different spin on things.

Going through the first 3 superficial passes, is just opening the Superficial Micro-Orbit/ Circulation.

Waiting, resting, rebuilding your strength at the Gates in front of the Interior [mountain] Passes is because you're waiting for your blood and circulatory system to be built up. Depending on your age and health you could be waiting for years in front of the First Gate and your whole Circle Walking session will just be in that phase or stage, so it's better to just focus on the martial skills and benefits you want to gain and also just work on increasing the amount of time you can turn, like a competition with yourself, set a goal and then work to reach that goal, and it doesn't matter at this point if you're using strength or have to just alternate it with being relaxed but still turning around the circle. I was getting up to 90 minutes but HJB recommends 2 hours a day in the beginning. It's also not crucial to do the same amount of time everyday, if your body only feels like doing 15 minutes that's ok. Learn to trust your body's instincts. Eventually you'll get through the first gate but it may still take 40 minutes to get up to the second gate, and then another 40 minutes to traverse that passage and get to the third gate.

Here's a thread I'd started that describes all this in great detail, the translated parts I tried to put within the { } or are just under the Chinese characters. While all my writing and commentary are within the [ ] brackets - Daoist Cultivation in the IMAs

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[Wanderingdragon]

The different spin, so you say is, IMO , the goal of understanding the physical, moving to the non doing and understanding the virtues, what you are talking about is all relevant to the martial/physical aspect, which is the very basic , albeit necessary it is the first thing you wish to leave behind in Taoist study.

[D_Glenn]

The different spin, so you say is, IMO , the goal of understanding the physical, moving to the non doing and understanding the virtues, what you are talking about is all relevant to the martial/physical aspect, which is the very basic , albeit necessary it is the first thing you wish to leave behind in Taoist study.

Ah Daoist study, I thought you were talking about dying when you said moving on to the next plane. Like you were just waiting to die.


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[D_Glenn]

Actually my analogy for the 3 mountain peaks in a row is kind of wrong. It's more like one really tall mountain, like an Everest, but it has two smaller peaks, or ridges (or technically 5 smaller stations as you need to open the Superficial Micro Orbit first). And these lower peaks/passes/gates are where you rest to acclimate to the higher altitude and wait out storms that are higher up. Only in Circle Walking it can take many hundreds of attempts to get to the top.

Acclimating, is a really good analogy for what's happening because the 'turtle back' posture is primarily done and held to benefit the kidneys and ideally to promote their production of EPO Erythropoietin.

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[D_Glenn]

So one of the most important postural requirements that's advocated is lifting the crown of the head, which is lengthening the vertebrae of the neck and tucking the chin down towards the throat (to protect the 'Hero's Gate' and the 'Monkey's Head' (Adam's Apple)), but what's often ignored is that it's bringing Baihui Point (GV20) up to the uppermost top.
百會 BaiHui (Hundred convergances, or where many things meet/ join/ gather). It's important to be conscious of this point. As we're trying to sink everything to the dantian and get the 'Small Orbit' Circulating, so we're told to focus on Qihai point (CV6). But as I mentioned it's important to lift the muscles of the pelvic floor to make a dome, this dome is called 'Duhu', which connects CV1 to GV1, but that's only connecting them, in order to bring energy back up the Du meridian, it's important, especially for the beginner and in the beginning of a practice session, to focus on Baihui point, even placing your finger on that point for a short time if needed. This is necessary to keep the energy up, even though you're consciously trying to sink it down to the dantian. A lot of taichi/qigong people are unknowingly causing themselves harm because they only bring it down, but typically not back up.

When you have the 'Small Orbit' circulating, it's the energy that's coming back up to Baihui point that keeps it circulating, and after some time it's at Baihui point that allows it to meet and converge with all the other meridians and then the 'Large Orbit' (flowing in all 12 meridians) can begin to circulate.

And when I say 'energy' it's more like the feeling of gathering the energy you need to get out of bed, or after you've been doing something labor-intensive all morning, have taken a lunch, and then it's the energy you need to motivate yourself to get back up and go do more work. So it's just having that slight feeling of motivation, or vigor. It's called 'Upright' because that's what bringing Baihui point to the top and tucking the tailbone aligns the point with Huiyin point, and then your spine is upright, but the energy is also 'upright' or uplifted. "Gather up your energy.", or "Raise your spirits."


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[D_Glenn]

So Baihui point is what you want to have in your mind but technically when the Large Orbit opens it's because the Yang meridians intersect at Da Chui (great hammer lit. the vertebrae about even with your collar bones that sticks out like a hammer) point (GV14), and the Yin meridians intersect on the lower abdomen at CV4 (guan yuan) and CV3.

When using the 'Bolang Jin' method of the spinal column to 'Fa' Issue force, what you're really doing is opening the three gates in quick succession, the tailbone tucks under and lumbar rounds out to the back- opens the first gate; the chest concaves and the thoracic vertebrae pull back- opens the middle gate; then the neck stretches up while the chin tucks, bringing Baihui point to the top- opens the 3rd/ upper gate. The 'Bo' in Bolang jin is also translated as 'Surging' and comes from the ancient Daoist technique of 'Flood Water Surging Upward' (洪水波涌 Hongshui Bo Yong), which at one time was just something done in Cultivation practices but somewhere along the way somebody started to do this movement while timing it with a strike of the arm.

So while Circle Walking we do a quick one or three 'Bolang Jin's with the spine to change directions and what this does is either urge the gates to open, or keep them flowing. But when your body is conditioned and you're able to correctly do the 'bolang jin' movements, at top speed, without fail, then when you're doing your striking drills, the quick repetitive motion of the spinal movement opens the three gates, flows the Small Orbit, then flows the Large Orbit, and it's the physical striking practice that puts you into a meditative state. It's an awesome feeling to just do strike after strike and lose track of the passage of time, but the downside is that it's not really cultivating or storing-up energy for future use. We use the 'Ox-Tongue/ Spade hand' where the thumb crosses over and covers Laogong point in the palm, or both hands are in tight fists. This is done to prevent 'dispersion', so the hands don't open and close for grabbing applications, that's done in application or practiced at another time. So if every rule is followed, and you're used to the movements, then there may be some cultivating happening when doing the striking drills but usually it's building up the same amount you're using, and ideally it doesn't leave you with a deficit. (The open Dragon Palm (opening and exposing Laogong point) and using 'zhen' (shocking) power will 'disperse' and one will want to practice/ drill those strikes sparingly, and do some extra Standing practice afterward to replace it.)

Vigor/ Standing up straight and tall in an imposing manner is 氣勢 Qishi, is the idea you want to have. This is bringing, raising up Qi to your Baihui point. This is also 精神百倍 Jingshenbaibei (vitality a hundredfold) or just 精神 Jingshen (essences and spirit) for short. Another word is 氣昂昂 Qiangang (full of vigor, spirited, valiant) and the character 昂 Ang is like a person kneeling under the sun, or standing in the warmth and heat energy of the sun, and means - Rise, Raise, Proud, Bold, Upright. Another word for upright energy is 正氣 Zhengqi (vital energy, correct and proper energy, or just Upright). 正直 Zhengzhi (upright, upstanding, honest) and brings us to where the character 直 Zhi is the top character in 德 De (of the Dao De Jing) and is generally translated as moral, virtue, goodness. It's the character for taking a small step with the left foot 彳Chi, next to the character 悳 De which is 直 Zhi above 心 Xin which is equivalent of 神 Shen (spirit) or 心神 Xinshen (mind and spirit). Signifying that's its the mind and spirit which are holding and rising someone upright, or standing ("Raise your spirits").

Some people naturally have 德 De but it's not really their ethics or morals because we first judge people by what we can see, it's not physical looks or beauty but the bright spirit that we can see. Many politicians get elected because of their 德 De that we can see, an Exterior 德 De, but some may lack the interior 德 De. But a person who lacks an impressive Exterior 德 De, that you can judge in an instant, may not really have a true, good, righteous, and moral Interior 德 De. So on the building virtue and goodness also first begins in the physical body, vigor, constitution, etc. and again to say that Daoists of the past didn't have the same strong, solid Dantian (and whole body dantian) that we seek in the Internal Martial Arts is wrong IME&O.

In Chinese Martial Arts the first rule for when in a fight is to hide your bright spirit (狠 Hen- hard, ruthless), which if you don't practice any Internal cultivation then you won't know what this means as you don't have anything you need to hide, or pull back inside. So in your solo practice you want to be in, and promote high spirits, but you then need to also learn how to pull this back inside, (which is also a part of pulling your 'Intention' (Yi) back inside, so the opponent can't read or listen (ting) to it, as 'Yi' is one of the Five Spirits).

The path (Dao) through the forest has to be taken one step at a time (彳Chi), if it's correct and true (直 Zhi) path, then you will develop more and more 德 De as you proceed down the path. If it's the false or incorrect path (Deviated 偏 Pian) then it will first show in your physical body, starting in your face and eyes, and then in health, posture, and overall well-being.

This is something you should keep in mind when seeking out a teacher and after you've found a path to embark upon then it's also a tool to use in order to quickly recognize if you've strayed off the path. Look in the mirror, really keep track of your day to day health, the sooner you can catch something the easier it is to fix it.

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[Wanderingdragon]

The different spin, so you say is, IMO , the goal of understanding the physical, moving to the non doing and understanding the virtues, what you are talking about is all relevant to the martial/physical aspect, which is the very basic , albeit necessary it is the first thing you wish to leave behind in Taoist study.

Ah Daoist study, I thought you were talking about dying when you said moving on to the next plane. Like you were just waiting to die.


.

This thread has been an excellent conversation and goes a long way in recognizing the reality of the mental, intellectual and physical, being, all indeed very much the reality of the mundane and that which surely must be accomplished before moving on to the next plane, a stop at the pass as D so elegantly states it. This is the place where all things average live, everything else, no matter the gift or the talent, it is the effort it takes to move beyond this plane

sometimes the words are not a lot, but if you hear them, they say a lot, true Taoist study is solely about the non doing and reaching that plane, "no matter the gift or the talent, it is the effort it takes to move beyond this plane ", this, imo is about living.

[Wanderingdragon]

The point being it is not about knowing the minutia but about doing the minutia,

[Doc Stier]

Very true! Intellectual knowledge and experiential knowledge are definitely two entirely different things. The latter being the only true knowledge at the end of the day.

[meeks]

The point being it is not about knowing the minutia but about doing the minutia

brilliant.

[D_Glenn]

The point being it is not about knowing the minutia but about doing the minutia,

True. I've been doing this since 1996. Thousands of hours Circle Walking and I made many mistakes along the way, and had to backtrack until I identified the mistake I'd made. But my teacher's instructions/"minutia" saved me years of mistakes that I might have also made, as he knows all of his personal mistakes, his teacher's mistakes, and their teacher's mistakes, but he can't forsee all the mistakes that I was going to encounter, so the main instruction was "Just go practice!".

I'm writing off top of my head to share my experiences and to also add in my mistakes. And to, hopefully, contribute something, which I think, is worth reading to an IMA forum. But since it is just a forum it's not written as well as it would be if I spent actual time on it, so excuse the run on sentences and grammatical mistakes as it's just a really rough draft.

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Knowing what is already known; Doing as others have done.

Because if you're: "Off by an inch (cun), then miss by a mile (li).

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[Doc Stier]

I think we're all on the same page here regarding the need to receive valid instruction from a competent teacher and regarding the wisdom of personally benefiting from their training experience. Your efforts in sharing what you have received are appreciated.

[D_Glenn]

It still takes a good amount of time to think about it all and then write it down, and I always look forward to seeing when other people have replied to what I've written, but to login and see that it's all just considered "minutia" is really disheartening. Maybe I'm taking it the wrong way but of all the insults I've suffered through over the years on EF and RSF this one hit the right spot for some reason.



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[Wanderingdragon]

Sorry no insult intended, I would read the book if it were out there or not ? My interest is in knowing what steps beyond where I stand must be taken to move I to the next phase, as doc said we're all on the same page here, and as I see it all very much at the precipice, the moment I here from someone who has stepped across, I am all over it. Please do not be disheartened, this thing we do is the study and practice of minutia, it is the only path in the quest for perfection. I must say though, at this point knowing the how is far more pertinant than knowing the what.