notes from recent Daoism seminar.

[flints]

I think WD meant "minutia" in the sense of intricacies and not things which are unimportant details. I am sure it is a terminological thing. I think he believes that there a lot of things one needs to get right in physical structure in order to advance.

I appreciated very much your explaining:

"Going on six generations now, we've learned in our BGZ, that if you practice extreme hardness in your zhan zhuang (standing; stillness practice), that then you can be truly soft and relaxed when you are practicing your forms (movement practice), and can then make full usage of both extreme softness and extreme hardness (hard and soft mutually supporting one another) when in an actual fight."

I had to think about it while I was practicing to see where I diverged. I do a lot of posture holding which one could think of hardness but even when I do that I try to be open and expanding and moving energy inside. This accords with my teacher's approach which emphasizes more open, more relaxed, more powerful. (While I have not been in a fight or even sparring, my teacher did fight for a while using tai chi as the means and developed his approaches and concepts around fighting.) Anyway, something to think about and I greatly appreciate your clear explanation of some very esoteric taoist materials.

[Wanderingdragon]

Thank you flints you got my meaning to the point. As a a suggestion I would like to offer all a small test, in the midst of your standing, I would like you to swallow once, and payclose attention to how it affects your posture. I think you will find that the chi or your essence decends immediately to the base, the dan tien becomes full and you feel solid. It is because of the positioning of the tongue the swallowing creates, the is minutia in its most tangible reality, to maintain this circulation is a primary step towards our goal of non doing, this is knowing how, it is but one aspect of the whole, I just hold it up as example of feeling what we do. Walking the circle, doing form and even fighting are all necessary aspects of learning the virtues necessary to move on. Most importantly though we must know how we do what we do.

[Overlord]

WD,
Perhaps it is best you separate your martial arts knowledge and Daost learning. So you can appreciate it more. Sometimes it is like yin and yang, opposite yet interdependent.

D_Glenn, thanks for your hard work and contribution. Some of stuff you posted cover the depth not for the average Chinese Joes. Let along someone with different cultural background.
It will take years of training and studying and learning/under mentor-ship to understand what you are saying. Simply not one of those MacDonald fast food course.
People are ignorant on things outside their realm, and usually when that happen, they try to scorn the topic to show their superior excellence. To boost their confidence, it is very understandable(下士聞 道，大笑之).
And we should embrace that and keep what we do. (上士聞道，勤而行之)

[Wanderingdragon]

As I have mentioned my martial knowledge is knocking on the door of my Taoist learning, it is a journey, and we can all share. As with D_Glen it is exiting to be where we are as long as we are participating in it.

[Overlord]

WD, sorry if I read your meaning wrong.
Cheers!

[Wanderingdragon]

No worries, it's just that I have done a great deal of reading as well, and I have mentioned in the past if I come across something I have actually experienced in real time is a great and tangible affirmation. So if I am privy to the journals of another I am always seeking the same as the path is the same. So I guess I'm looking for more physical discriptions of real time phenomena that can be empirically described by those who have had the experience. Much like I learned my martial skills, there was some one who tell as well as demonstrate why we do what we do, and here I do not have such a Taoist instructor, other than my own physical being, and with that I follow some of my teachers most recent advice, " you just be comfortable " , " it is natural, you don't have to make it, if you do it you will know it ", " you don't get tired ". By way of my martial experience, once you know it you can do it, in the beginning you get flashes and you must hold onto the feeling to get it. The same now I am getting flashes and trying to hold onto the feel and reality of it. So I question and probe as well as doubt like minds until I truly know to share.

[D_Glenn]

To boost their confidence, it is very understandable(下士聞 道，大笑之).
And we should embrace that and keep what we do. (上士聞道，勤而行之)

Thanks.
That is also true for many topics that come up on the forum.

That saying reminds me of the story about a rare flower that only blooms in the top of a really tall tree. The dedicated student will try to find a way to climb the tree in order to see the flower up close; while the false student will just chop the tree down in order to see, the now dead, flower up close.

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[D_Glenn]

...Alright, continuing from my last post about Zheng Qi, De, and so on --

Diverging from a straight line, Crooked, not Upright: 偏斜 Pianxie, which gives us 斜 Xie Qi (Divergent Qi) and is the opposite of 正 Zheng Qi (Straight; Upright Qi) where it's Zheng Qi that we want and we strive for/ seek out. These aren't types of Qi but qualities of the whole body.

Daoyin (movement- guiding and leading) is the postures and movement into and out of either specific health exercises or martial movements. Seek the Upright (Zheng); avoid the Crooked/ Divergent (Xie) in every movement. This is where you need to be meticulous in your movements, moving slowly at first, paying attention to every detail/ "minutia". One part moves, every part moves. But at first you may only be able to focus on a few things but over time those few things are correct and then you can focus on several more things, eventually all 100 parts will be moving in unison/ harmony and you don't have to be focusing your 'Yi' on them anymore as ideally they've come under the direction of your 'Po', and then you can focus your 'Yi' on things that are happening outside of your body, (like focusing it on what your opponent is doing), etc.

正 Zheng is typically interpreted to be 'stop, halt' (止 Zhi) which is thought to be a variation of the character for 'foot' (足 zu) meaning 'toes' like drawing a 'line' (一 yi) in the sand with the toes of your foot and saying don't cross this line, or halt at this line.

But another way to look at it is that 正 Zheng is the character for 'Hero; Knight; Soldier; Scholar' (士 Shi - which is 十 shi (a cross representing all four directions on a compass; over a solid 'line' (一 yi) which in the case represents the whole of the earth and 士 Shi is very knowledgeable about things on earth/ physical tangible things.). Where 止 Zhi is like the Knight holding a spear in his hand; where 正 Zheng is a knight holding up the upper line (which represents Heaven), and guarding all the knowledge that the Man gains in his lifetime, and standing on the line representing the Earth. Or only by studying the nature of things growing from the 'Soil' (土 Tu), and the understanding of natural life and functioning of the human body and all it's complexities is 'Complete' (十足 Shizu) then you can begin to understand the nature of the Heavens, or our Spirit and Mind, and only then is it 'Finished' (十成 Shicheng or just 成 Cheng) and you have the line in 正 Zheng moved up to complete the line in 'Greatest, Strongest, Monarch, King' (王 Wang) as you know everything about Heaven, Man, and Earth. Of course, in Baguazhang the practice and training is never complete. There's always more to learn.

You can also look at the character in between Heaven and Earth as 仕 Shi ( which in Chinese Chess (象棋 Xiangqi) is the two Officers who Guard and Protect the General or King; the character is 人 Ren (man) next to 士 Shi (Knight; Scholar)). Guarding your knowledge, training, or skills is not really about not divulging what you know or sharing what you know (whether it's a little or a lot), or asking questions from others.

仕 Shi (Guarding; Protecting; Advising or Officiating) which in regards to your personal knowledge and skill is about the importance of seeking out your own truths inside yourself. Practice and study but use your own body as your primary teacher. Or it's like taking advice from your body's own Officials and Advisors and filtering outside information through them, where in these times it's also invaluable to see what's going on outside of yourself. Seek outside information, because 'qigong sickness' or 偏斜 Pianxie aka 斜 Xie Qi (Divergent Qi) is insidious and sneaks up gradually and slowly, and before it's fully recognized it may be too late. (Trying to understand Heaven (your spirit) before knowing the Earth and your own physical body (Man) is the worst thing you can do because, after just a short time, trusting in your deviated self could be the last thing that you want to be doing.) One of the best things to do is to get regular acupuncture treatments at least 4 or 5 times a year.

So in gaining your knowledge and internal skill the key to protecting it is to learn from many different view points but don't let them take you off course, or if you look at this as a lifelong practice of sharpening both your physical and mental edge, which is done on a grinding stone, it's not letting these other, oftentimes contradictory, ideas crack your grinding stone, because just the smallest crack can ruin the whole grinding stone because every time it spins around that crack will dull or chip your edge and unlike a blacksmith who could go and get another piece of steel, you only have this one piece of steel. So don't let other ideas crack or break your focus, unless you're increasingly finding yourself already on the wrong track as the information is so contradictory.

If you do try to study two different paradigms at the same time, that's like trying to maintain two different grindstones and you may end up spending more time oiling and maintaining the two stones then you do actually grinding your edge. And some grindstones are coarse, for just forming the raw shape, while other grindstones are fine, like sandstone, for buffing and putting the finishing sharpness, and if you try and shape the raw steel on a fine sandstone grinding wheel then you'll just wear down the wheel to nothing and won't be putting any shape (形 Xing) into your piece of steel, nor changing the 'nature' (性xing) of your steel from a blunt implement into a fine cutting blade. And this would be like trying to understand Heaven/ Spirit/ the branches and flowers before understanding where we come from the Earth/ our Root. A classic example of 本末倒置 Běnmò​dào​zhì (lit. to invert root and branch (idiom); to stress the incidental over the fundamental).

This is from a story about an Emperor who had his servants cut all the flowers off his rose garden and bring them inside so he could see them all together and enjoy them from his cushions -- Cut all the flowers off a rose bush and you can have something beautiful for just a few days; But cut trimmings off a rose bush, then plant and nurture them and you can enjoy dozens of rose bushes, with many blossoms, for your whole lifetime.


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[Wanderingdragon]

To prune the rose bush carefully, is to see it flourish with greater blossoms. Although this, I only know from doing.

[D_Glenn]

The Grinding wheel - (I don't know that these images are from China but they were of similar design the world over):









The most important part of the Grinding Wheel is that when it was spinning that it was balanced, spinning perfectly vertical and aligned with gravity, so that it wouldn't wobble. This is being 正 Zheng (vertical; upright; true balance). Any slightest tilting or wobbling side to side (偏斜 Pianxie or just 斜 Xie- not vertical; not upright) would be impossible to sharpen a weapon or tool on. And if the wobble was too great then it could chip or crack the stone. So great care was taken to keep the axle oiled and the wheel balanced.


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[D_Glenn]

This is kind of an example of using the changing of 'shape' (形 Xing) in order to affect a change in it's 'nature' (性 xing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APMheQP3pgU

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[flints]

Thanks D_Glenn, this is about one of the best things I've seen written:

"仕 Shi (Guarding; Protecting; Advising or Officiating) which in regards to your personal knowledge and skill is about the importance of seeking out your own truths inside yourself. Practice and study but use your own body as your primary teacher. Or it's like taking advice from your body's own Officials and Advisors and filtering outside information through them, where in these times it's also invaluable to see what's going on outside of yourself. Seek outside information, because 'qigong sickness' or 偏斜 Pianxie aka 斜 Xie Qi (Divergent Qi) is insidious and sneaks up gradually and slowly, and before it's fully recognized it may be too late. (Trying to understand Heaven (your spirit) before knowing the Earth and your own physical body (Man) is the worst thing you can do because, after just a short time, trusting in your deviated self could be the last thing that you want to be doing.) One of the best things to do is to get regular acupuncture treatments at least 4 or 5 times a year."

Really and truly awesome.