notes from recent Daoism seminar.

[mixjourneyman]

Fascinating. Thank you very much for posting this. Clear explanations and helpful. Please give us the rest if there is any as you develop it.

give me money first!!
hahaha just kididng.


Yeah, I'll post it as we have classes in the future.

Back to China quite soon though, so maybe a bit quiet for a wihle;.
Although I will be doing some research in Kaifeng city Henan, and perhaps be able to post some interviews with the monks in the dao guan there.

[flints]

Well, once you have finished testing your material in your seminar and on this board (to the extent that you do) give me a heads up and I will buy your book.

[mixjourneyman]

thank you.

[Wanderingdragon]

In my mind and, of course, it's only my thought, and I have gotten blowback on this attitude already, the blowback is especially strong in the martial community, but of course I am me. IMO one should not teach until he can do and has done. Authority is only an affectation for material gain if not.

"When the Human animal wakes to Be the Human Being, when our inner mirror reflects that which is found within rather than that which appears to be of the world, then it is said man is fully realized. It is said that you will know him by his fruits or actions. He is the calm when the storm blows everyone else about, he is Love's expression, has compassion with discernment, & ultimately patient. He never reacts but always responds, humility with dignity. He may not have all the answers because he knows he never had to know anything except where to go to get the answers. He lives in this world but is clearly not of it. He hears & follows one Voice."
Peace.

[flints]

Well, that would certainly reduce the amount of available material. Thomas Cleary has translated many books on Taoism and Taoist practice, the successful translation of which depends on deeply understanding the subject matter and practice. I suspect Cleary is not a realized human in the Taoist sense. Are we better off without his translations? Probably anyone who has written a Tai Chi book in the last 80 years is not as nearly good as even Yang Chengfu, are we better off without any of their books? (well, that one has got me thinking....)

[mixjourneyman]

I can suggest you look into a basketball coach for children's teams.
Normally they aren't much better at ball than the kids, but sometimes they are seminal in producing real professionals.

i like Bao's idea that teachers work at many different levels and serve many different groups of people.

the reasons why I teach Daoism are two:
firstly, it has helped me grow as a person so much that I want to share it with others (my students have also found this).
secondly- my teacher suggested I teach some of his material, and i feel that daoism is more useful to normal people than martial arts.

My attitude is that when people need a better teacher, they will find one - but at the start of the road, normal people like us are there to help people along.

My first taiji teacher really virtually knew nothing about the art - but he started me on the path to get really into taiji, and later I even found master Yang and went to China and discovered a fantastic way of living.
the compassion shown by juniour level teachers is often much purer than high level professionals who sometimes become jaded or confused by money.

Just my two cents ^_^

[middleway]

Thanks for all the effort Mix and being kind enough to share your work here. Rarely read this sort of stuff but i found some of it pretty interesting.

Cheers

[mixjourneyman]

D_glenn also posts some very good stuff and has some real knowledge in the Daoism field.
Strongly suggest everyone look at his threads too

[cerebus]

I can suggest you look into a basketball coach for children's teams.
Normally they aren't much better at ball than the kids, but sometimes they are seminal in producing real professionals.

i like Bao's idea that teachers work at many different levels and serve many different groups of people.

the reasons why I teach Daoism are two:
firstly, it has helped me grow as a person so much that I want to share it with others (my students have also found this).
secondly- my teacher suggested I teach some of his material, and i feel that daoism is more useful to normal people than martial arts.

My attitude is that when people need a better teacher, they will find one - but at the start of the road, normal people like us are there to help people along.

My first taiji teacher really virtually knew nothing about the art - but he started me on the path to get really into taiji, and later I even found master Yang and went to China and discovered a fantastic way of living.
the compassion shown by juniour level teachers is often much purer than high level professionals who sometimes become jaded or confused by money.

Just my two cents ^_^

Yup.

[Wanderingdragon]

Well, that would certainly reduce the amount of available material. Thomas Cleary has translated many books on Taoism and Taoist practice, the successful translation of which depends on deeply understanding the subject matter and practice. I suspect Cleary is not a realized human in the Taoist sense. Are we better off without his translations? Probably anyone who has written a Tai Chi book in the last 80 years is not as nearly good as even Yang Chengfu, are we better off without any of their books? (well, that one has got me thinking....)

I have read much of Cleary's work and others as well, the reads are informative and elucidating yet these guys are not giving lessons on breath work or doling out homework or asking to be paid. To do so means you have done so, and you are completely versed to guide one through to the end.

[mixjourneyman]

I didn't realize that my joke about money was that subtle.

Thought I'd made it obvious.





They were all free events.

[flints]

I think the distinction between author/translators and lecturers is much less than you suggest. The Vitality Energy Spirit source book which Cleary edited, that is he actively chose what to include and what not, has a wealth of practical material in it which you can use to do breathing and energy exercises. I definitely had to pay for each of his books. He doesn't dole out homework, but i can certainly choose to give myself some based on what he wrote. I think mixjourneyman is correct. It's a messy business and we all need a place to start. Some bad luck will put you on the wrong path possibly irrecoverably.

[mixjourneyman]

Anyway,
All of the infomration I am passing along is by way of my teacher Yang Hai - he studied under a number of teachers, but primarily in White Cloud temple in Beijing.
I've been studying internal arts with him for a decade - and for the last three yeras or so, he has asked me to teach.
Breathing exercises, as previously mentioned, can be somewhat tricky, but I would like to mention that karate teachers, some of whom practice less than five years, are quite famous for teaching breathing exercises - yet very few people mention it. Heck, I've even met highschool teachers who advise their kids to take ten long breaths before sitting down to write an exam.
I think the breathing exercises I teach are fairly safe- actually, I wouldn't even go so far as to call them breathing exercises- they are mind exercises that eventually lead to the ability to breath without active conscious control (and yes, I can do that, so I do feel I am qualified to teach).
I understand though why WD may worry about people teaching meditation though- lots of people in the field teach poorly and mess their students up.
But hey, lots of people who are commonly considered to be spiritual masters also fuck their students up, and even further, lots of really good teachers have fucked up students. No choice about those things.
the good news is that so far, all of my students who have come out to these things over the past couple of months have gained obvious benefit, enjoy the practice, and have developed themselves as better practitioners of their respective arts (we have yoga, taiji, and reiki folks among other things.)
anyway, I fear that this may turn into a drawn out confrontation, which is not something that I am amenable to - so if it is just as fine to everyone, I will not respond to any more posts that follow this specific direction. I'm still open to the original content of the thread though

[flints]

Honestly, I think it's a good respectful discussion. Different view points are natural and good, imo. Thanks for being so responsive and thanks to wanderingdragon for raising his perspective.

[Wanderingdragon]

Mix has been an active member of this community probably longer than myself, and as for Master Yang Hai, I hold him among the elite. That said I enjoy all that mix has and does share, but he will readily tell you he is a work in progress and there should never be affirmation by association, Yang Hai is a Master who's skill mix has lightyears to go to understand, helping out in class is always an honor, but it should not be used as confirmation of your skill. Your work must stand on its own, breathing exercises is a far cry from the breath work you are touting here.