Korean Taekkyon

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby chenyaolong on Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:30 am

If he is going to teach something, Im sure it would be great.... but if he is just going to have a rant, then no thanks....

Do Ki-Hyun was a very nice person, treated me well, and was a good teacher who gave me some useful material which I continue to practice and has helped my own MA training.

You are free to market your own "super authentic Taekkyon", but please dont keep posting sly remarks about my teacher.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:24 pm

He will be teaching. He will be showing you the moves he learned. He also briefly stated, Master Song did taekkyun w/ his hands up.

Unfortunately for you, you happened to have gotten into the taekkyun world through Do Ki Hyun.
From what I know he isn't nice. He is distorting what the truth is for his own greed and need.

Song Duk Ki is the source of Taekkyun, not Do Ki Hyun, and Song Duk Ki has taught others.
Do Ki Hyun also learned from Song Duk Ki but isn't teaching what is correct.
They are all telling you what Do Ki Hyun is teaching isn't taekkyun.

If you are wise I would recommend listening to everyone in the community before holding on to your opinions and emotions,
and make your decisions after seeing all the facts.

If you are in Korea and can attend, you should and be the judge for yourself.
I am not here to market anything.
Lee Byung Han and Master Ko has also never met each other.
Lee Byung Han also doesn't know Lee Joon Seo.
Lee Byung Han knows Do Ki Hyun because they trained together during the same time period.

And to talk about marketing, it was Do Ki Hyun who marketed himself as the closest to the real thing.
Do Ki Hyun specifically said that he knew the martial art applicable moves which he directly learned from Master Song.
He claimed he knew more than Choong Ju and Dae Han after returning from his studies overseas.
From previous Kyurlun members, they said he knew about 8. He says it himself, its in Kyurlun Taekkyun curriculum.
Funny w/ 8 moves you think you can get a whole martial art?

Another interesting thing is, it was Do Ki Hyun's ex-students who found Lee Byung Han, because they wanted to know how it got like this.
You don't know him well for what it's worth.

Even I am curious to know what Lee Byung Han has saw, and will show at the seminar.

My objective of my posts are so you see all the facts.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:47 pm

The seminar phamplet translates as below.

We are holding a seminar to correct the perception of Master Song Duk Ki's Taekkyun.
1984-1985, for 1 year and 6 months, Lee Byung Han who has learned Taekkyun under Master Song Duk Ki wants to have a honest sincere talk and representation of Taekkyun.

Seminar Info
Date: 2015 Nov 29 Sunday 2PM-5PM
Location: Seoul University Gym (3rd Floor) Usually the Judo Gym
Party: Korea Martial Science Research
Registration: Nov 16-25th until 5pm
Fee: Pre-registration - Regular Adult 20,000 won, Student 10,000
At the event - Regular Adult 30,000 won, Student 20,000

[email protected]
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby chenyaolong on Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:06 pm

I'm not even in the Taekkyon world, I am back in China now. I was in Korea for a year, and while I don't know the ins and outs of Taekkyon politics (I frankly dont care about any MA politics), all I can say is Do Ki-Hyun was a nice teacher to me, and the other students, there was a good training atmosphere with very nice people who were very patient with me despite the fact I don't speak Korean. They were very open and we would spar together at the end of almost every class, I would show them some Mantis techniques too.

To me a martial arts reputation is built more on the above points than anything else.

As this is a Chinese martial arts forum, let's just end the discussion here. If you want to promote Taekkyon, there's better ways to go about it than creating accounts on different forums to troll me because you don't like my teacher.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:02 am

There you ago, accusing me of trolling. I am posting the proper information on this forum because that is what forums are for.
Also if i see improper information regarding taekkyun, you will find me at the forums again, because the information is either incorrect or there is lack of it.
And these 3 federations who are teaching "taekkyun" to the mass audience is not even 1% correct.

Also yes, this is a Chinese martial arts forum BUT you have started the whole thread on "Korean Taekkyeon". not me.

You also have posted in your first post questioning how practical the style is.

As for how practical the style is, I think it will need more time to really see, it is more a sport/game than a combat art, but I was watching the teacher doing some trips and sweeps on some students and the crispness and sudden power did impress me.


I replied w/ proper information what you have learnt from Do Ki Hyun, that it is not practical, and I have explained plenty why.
Did he teach you any of the moves in the book? Did he even teach you how to use your arms?
What did you learn from him I question? Did he even teach you proper poom balb ki (taekkyun's unique stepping)?


You also questioned if Taekkyun is worth training.

Besides..... let's take this one step further.... how much of Taekkyon do you think Song Duk Ki really knew? I mean he learnt it what.... before the Japanese occupation, for how long, I can't imagine it was that long... then he didn't teach anybody for most of his life.... did he learn everything? What was his level? Living through so much political turmoil and war, did he have time to train that much? Had he forgotten stuff in that huge gap where he didn't teach?


And I replied you have to see Widae Taekkyun to know.

And you are now telling me a martial reputation is built on how friendly the people are at the gym?
I don't agree with you on that. If you being deceived in what he is teaching, how can that be proper training???

We can end that here. However if I see improper information on taekkyun on any forum, I will discuss truth.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby GrahamB on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:57 am

By co-incidenence my friend is currently in Korea and has just had a lesson at the "World Taekkyon Headquarters"

Image
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby chenyaolong on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:06 am

GrahamB wrote:By co-incidenence my friend is currently in Korea and has just had a lesson at the "World Taekkyon Headquarters"

Image


what did he think of it?
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby GrahamB on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:35 am

I don't know - but I think he enjoyed it - there's a picture of him smiling anyway. He is wearing a black belt and says they awarded him a black belt! But I think he may be joking - I haven't talked to him properly about it.

He posted a video of the teacher doing an impromptu demonstration at lecture he was giving at Taekwondowon and it looked not too bad to me. Apparently this guy had invented a new dance thing based on Taekkyon footwork and taiji principles.

Join the Facebook group 'martial arts studies' and you can see the video.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:20 pm

Hi GrahamB,
This is the video right?
https://www.facebook.com/paul.bowman.9887/videos/1512176869079574/



Now compare that to previous Widae seminar.


He posted a video of the teacher doing an impromptu demonstration at lecture he was giving at Taekwondowon and it looked not too bad to me. Apparently this guy had invented a new dance thing based on Taekkyon footwork and taiji principles.


The name of the man in the pamphet and the video is Kim Young Man, and he didn't invent a new dance thing based on Taekkyon footwork and taiji principles.
That is Widae Taekkyun. Song Duk Ki's taekkyeon is called Widae Taekkyun.
Only 2 man can claim their taekkyeon is Widae who has directly learned from Song Duk Ki, none of the other federations can claim it for various reasons.

TOLD YOU it looks kinda like taichi.

I can also tell you WiDae Taekkyun looks more similar to Kyokushin Karate, ITF TKD (some of the kicks), Muay Thai, Jujitsu (standing mainly), and Taichi.


He was or is still part of Dae Han Taekkyun; however, he came to Master Ko few years ago back and trained for a short time.

:)
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby GrahamB on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:16 pm

Here's his write up of what the class was like - it's pretty interesting:

http://martialartsstudies.blogspot.co.u ... n.html?m=1
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:20 pm

He also mentions its like Muay Thai below :)
Everything I have explained he described it almost correctly.

Now can you imagine how master Ko is?
He has been doing this since 1969.
Kim Young Man max has been doing it for few years from what I remember.
It is not long. I was one of his training partner. :)

Currently there is no student of master Ko that can execute any of the moves to his level.

He is also right about push palm, taekkyun uses this extensively. That's all I can say for now.

The man in question was Master Kim, the same person whose poster display I had more or less refused to look at the day before. He demonstrated something of the footwork of taekkyon, and then with an uke, he showed how taekkyon moves in with hand and feet techniques. The hands smother the opponent's strikes and then the range moves into grappling and kicking. The kicks can be percussive or trapping, wrapping, sweeping and locking. They move smoothly from floor level to head height with astonishing speed. I liked the look of it.

I switched from filming and went to tell him that I thought it looked great. He asked me to square off against him and throw some slow punches, which I did. We moved then into very familiar territory, and I was liking it even more. Incoming attacks are smothered, sort of doused, and the Taekkyon adept uses some incredibly nimble footwork and the bouncing of weight up and down, combined with forward and backward circles to generate all kinds of energies for attacks. In some ways it feels like taiji. In others it feels like wing chun. But then these kicks come out of nowhere, and they are like hands grabbing at you, manipulating your joints, kicking you away or sweeping you down.


Master Kim warmed us up: footwork, stepping, using one foot to pat different areas of one's own body - ankles, shins, thighs, front, side and back. Then warm ups for the upper body - warm ups that were clearly also viable techniques. Two hands high, palms forward (think Muay Thai), then stepping and circles, stepping and strikes, straight strikes, upward strikes, downward strikes. At every stage Master Kim came over and corrected my movement. My steps were too big. They were not coordinated with my hip movements, etc.

Perhaps because of this, we moved swiftly into partner work. The elderly gentlemen did their own thing. Master Kim took me. The American was left to fend for himself.
First things first: two punches come in. These must be parried, in downward circular motions. Not hit, not slapped, but caught on the forearms and pulled down and away by the circular movement. At the same time, a floor-sweeping circular kick comes in. Bang. Perhaps I should have told him about my ankle injury? It's too late now. Bang. I keep doing it wrong. My kicks are too high. They are not circles. He shows me, at length, smacking circular kicks into the screws in my ankle. Finally we switch to the other side. That's better: at least there are metal plates around there, not screws. I'm a bit better on this side, but still I'm slapping rather than making circles.

Of course, for every technique there is a counter. I guess Master Kim has established pretty quickly that it will be better to use me as an uki and just show me the kinds of things that competent Taekkyon players can and will do. So I do the drills: pat-pat the punches, swing in the leg for the first kick (sometimes 'not good!', sometimes 'better!'), and he shows me a range of counters. And so the lesson passes pleasantly: Hana! Tul! Set! Wallop, I'm on the floor. Hana! Tul! Set! Whoosh, my leg has been kicked so far away from me that I feel like Penelope Pitstop or Olive Oil on ice.

In one exercise, I go up for a knee, or to raise my knee before a thrust kick, and he thrusts his foot into the top of my thigh so forcefully that it both folds me in half and sends me flat onto my backside.

There is plenty of this. It is great. Taekkyon goes in close and has all the hand-range competencies and propensities of all the best arts I've experienced - a good strong structure and strong and plausible basic principles. But then, below all of this, you have got feet moving so fast and so fluidly to make more mischief than you can imagine. Sometimes it's just whack-whack-whack. Many arts have this. But at other times it's like you are being folded up to be packed into a box - or when you flatten an oversize cardboard box in order to fit it into the bin: first one leg is taken out, then the other is folded down, then the first leg gets some more treatment - during which you have been sent spinning and crashing away from the possibility of even thinking about a counter. As I say, it's great.

Master Kim was critical of many aspects of my performance. My stepping, primarily. Too big, too slow. I kept saying 'it's my escrima'. But I'm not entirely convinced of that. I get criticised by my escrima instructors for my stepping too. So, of course, responsibility for my footwork starts and ends with me. But anyway, there was one an aspect of the class that I felt I could legitimately be critical of - and that was the admittedly short period of time we spend on grappling and take downs. This was really an addendum to other things. But I wasn't entirely convinced that this part of the package was all it could be. After years of doing taiji pushhands with a small handful of people who were prepared to up the ante and always search for real combative moves, I felt that, rusty as I am, I would fare ok at that level. Of course, in taiji pushhands, there's not always the great threat that your partner could in a flash do a straight thrust kick up to your chin as soon as look at you, or simply remove your feet from beneath you and deposit them six feet away from where you needed them to be.

So that was my lesson, and that was my few days in Korea. Obviously, I've missed out all the stuff about food and drink, kimchi and soju. But that's for another time and place. I am not surprised to have come away with 'taekwondo fatigue'. It was so relentless and inescapable in Muju. The whole place is an advert for itself. And it's playing on a loop. But I am surprised to have discovered how interesting and exciting Taekkyon is. I honestly always thought it was really just a bi-product of the invention of taekwondo: I really thought that because they needed to say taekwondo emerged from a continuous indigenous martial tradition, therefore they needed to reinvent Taekkyon as that indigenous tradition.

I don't know about any of this. I don't honestly know if current Taekkyon is a true-ish continuation of a longish tradition, or if it is a reconstituted object carrying the same name as something that once existed. In either case, in terms of martial arts (but not martial arts studies) it doesn't matter. Taekkyon has something unique and valuable to offer to martial arts. Interested readers should make contact with Master Kim at the World Taekkyon Headquarters in Seoul. Let me know if you want to. I have his email address.

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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby Patrick on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:40 am

Is this "Widae taekkyon" now something new? It looks different than the other Taekkyon videos online. I dare to say more modern, a mixture of other styles.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:12 am

It is not a mixture. Have plenty evidence of that.
You have to look at the 3 taekkyun books that was published before even the other taekkyun federations started.
All the categories of techniques come out on it.
I briefly explained it on page 6 of the forum, its a red book. I believe the recording date for that book was early 1980's.

I have put in my posts why it is different.

Also there are technical explainations why it isn't a mixture.
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:55 pm

There is another Widae Taekkyun Dojang in Korea.

This is their demonstration videos.







http://taekkyeon.net/
서울시 종로구 필운대로1길 12(필운동 84)
Tel: 02-733-4248 | Fax: 02-733-4248 | e-mail: [email protected]
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Re: Korean Taekkyon

Postby taekkyunbunny on Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:03 pm

Also there is another person who claims this is Subak.



This is not Taekkyeon. There are technical reasons why but please don't think this is related to Widae Taekkyun.
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