Korean Taekkyon

[Andy_S]

I think Tangsoodo included (and maybe still does) a "long fist" and a "taiji" form as their "advanced" kata. But AFAIK, they had no ancillary training from the CMA - just the forms.

I have never heard of the art including southern Shaolin, bagua or hsingI, but I don't know everything.

I watched some GIs practicing the TSD long fist form under their Korean master on Yongsan Base some years ago. Having seen CMA longfist, I was not favorably impressed.

[edededed]

I remember an advanced (black belt or just before?) form called "shipsoo" (ten hans?) that was done somewhat slowly with deep breathing. I don't think there was anything CMA-ish about any of the training, to be honest - it was just karate with an imaginative CMA flavor added to it. I never heard of any bagua or xingyi in there - and that would be silly, to be honest; back then, the bagua and xingyi folks were even more secretive than they are now. There were some more CMA-ish things in the advanced (later dan) levels, apparently, but I never saw them.

Even if it does include those things, though - spending 10 years or so doing pseudo-karate is not going to help gain CMA-type body skill

[wayne hansen]

My friend bob caputo outlines the Chinese forms in his book
He may well have learnt them all elsewhere
However he claims they came from Hawang kee
He showed me hwangs Korean book which had them in it
The book also had noi gung and the muscle change classic
Bob taught me a form called lion monkey
I also remember one called dancing swan and anouther called little tiger
As I remember the Chinese forms were taught by Chinese teachers seperate to the school
The reason why they may not taught publicly is due to the name of the system
China hand way not too popular name in the anti communist south

[chenyaolong]

There are 4 federations of taekkyun currently, led by different people.
1. The Korea Taekkyon Federation (KTF). The KTF is led by Lee Yongbok, who learned from both Song Duk Ki and Shin Han-seung.
2. The Korea Traditional Taekgyeon Association (KTTA). The KTTA is led by Jeong Gyeong-hwa who was given the title of "living cultural asset" by the Korean Government. He learned from Shin Han-seung and Song Duk Ki.
3. The Kyulyun Taekyun Association (KTK). The KTK is led by Do Ki-hyun who mainly learned from both Song Duk Ki, but also from Shin Han-seung.
4. The World Widae Taekkyeon Organization (WWTO). The WWTO is based in Los Angeles and led by Go Yong-woo who learnt from Song Duk Ki.

Now I will tell you the difference the reality of taekkyun at the moment. What you see on youtube is not how taekkyun supposed to be. (Now you guys are going to ask me where I am getting this information) You will only understand the situation if you are in Taekkyun community and have been for a long time. Its actually a mess.

Anyways 1, 2, 3 founders were taekwondo practitioners before they bumped into Song, and they only had few weeks even few months of training under Song.
There is a lineage tree for modern taekkyun produced by KTTA, however it is questionable. Shin Hwan Seung (teacher of Jeong Gyeong-hwa) has 3 teachers one being Song and 2 others.
One of them has basis in Judo and him being even in the lineage tree is questionable.

#4 who is in hiding somewhere and another friend somewhere in Korea had both nearly 15 yrs approximately under Song. They knew Song before the founders of 1,2,3 appeared b/c they lived in the same village as Song. They don't teach publicly or have federation of schools.
1,2,3 are fully aware of existence of 4, yet they don't seemed to be cooperating each other.

In time when 4 appears in public is when you will see the real thing.

I can only speak for Do Ki Hyun as I dont know anything about the others... while it is true he learnt TKD first (who didnt learn it in Korea), he told me he studied for several years under Song..... so either he is lying, or you got your facts mixed up... Im not really qualified to say. But he didn't learn from Shin, that is for sure.

I dont really know the ins-and-outs of the politics on Taekkyon either, but to me it sounds like you are just adding to the list of people claiming who is the "real successor".

[taekkyunbunny]

I can only speak for Do Ki Hyun as I dont know anything about the others... while it is true he learnt TKD first (who didnt learn it in Korea), he told me he studied for several years under Song..... so either he is lying, or you got your facts mixed up... Im not really qualified to say. But he didn't learn from Shin, that is for sure.

I dont really know the ins-and-outs of the politics on Taekkyon either, but to me it sounds like you are just adding to the list of people claiming who is the "real successor".

I am not adding to the list of people claiming who is the "real successor" I am just stating the facts.

There is a series of books of Taekkyun published in 1970's i believe. It is series of 3 books. Very nice pics in black and white.
Look at the people who comes out. Master Ko comes out in that book.

Lee Yong Bok actually approached Master Ko in doing the taekkyun federation together. Master Ko declined.
Do Ki Hyun knows himself Master Ko knows more.

[taekkyunbunny]

Let's go w/ the facts. Taekkyun was a martial art, not a "do".

Its main characteristics compared to other martial arts is:

1. Use of hwargetjit.
2. More Soft than Hard
3. Techniques used to take opponent off balance.
4. Kicking techniques high and low including sweeps
5. Punching and hand striking techniques.
6. Some sort of throwing and grabbing.
7. Use of poom balb ki (stepping unique to taekkyun)

They obviously don't understand 1, 5 (almost non existent), 7 is also iffy.

[taekkyunbunny]

I will make some scans of the book, I only have 1 of the books, to let you know what I am talking about.

[taekkyunbunny]

About that, I found it interesting in the Human Weapon episode on Korean arts that some of the guys who were in the TKD demo team/school were also on the Taekkyun demo team/school. It seemed like a group that just did these big performances and changed uniforms.

That was Lee Yong Bok.... one of the iffy taekkyuns.

[chenyaolong]

It appears you are trolling me... I've seen you replying to other posts by me on other forums, and I am assuming that was you commenting on my Youtube clips too.

I'm no expert on Taekkyon, but it is an art that is very hard to find any information in English on, and as I moved to Korea for a while, I wanted to experience an authentic Korean style, and present my experiences online so that people could see a little about what it is all about.

I don't know how you managed to find every post on every forum I have posted on regarding Taekkyon, but it's pretty fucking sad....

If you are in Seoul, I'm sure you could go visit Master Do himself and tell him what you think about his Taekkyon, rather than trolling a guy who trained under him for just a few months

[Graculus]

As long as he's bringing useful content to the discussion, I don't think it's trolling…at least not here. I think both parties are making interesting contributions, so as long as it doesn't degenerate into squabbling...

@ Taekkyonbunny: Looking forward to the scans from that book with interest.

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com

[chenyaolong]

Sure useful content is always welcome..... but this guy has been following me round the internet for some reason...... anyway, unless Taekyun Bunny can show us some clips of himself demonstrating "the real thing", I'm not gonna give him the time of day

[windwalker]

My friend bob caputo outlines the Chinese forms in his book
He may well have learnt them all elsewhere
However he claims they came from Hawang kee
He showed me hwangs Korean book which had them in it
The book also had noi gung and the muscle change classic
Bob taught me a form called lion monkey
I also remember one called dancing swan and anouther called little tiger
As I remember the Chinese forms were taught by Chinese teachers seperate to the school
The reason why they may not taught publicly is due to the name of the system
China hand way not too popular name in the anti communist south

Used to practice a style called plum flower mantis

Korea also had a history of regular trade and exchange across the Yellow Sea with northeastern China generally, and Shandong province in particular. Long a location associated with Military Science and fighting arts, Shandong province had imparted to Korea a variety of arts over the years. Liang Xue Xiang (1780-1860) was mentioned prominently by the Korean Branch of the Mei Hua Tang Lang (梅花螳螂 : méi huā táng láng ; 매화당랑) as the "creator of the Plum Flower Branch of Northern Praying Mantis, while Lin Ping Jiang, an emigre of the 1940's is known to have come from Shandong province to teach Praying Mantis in the Seoul area.

we had a form called "small tiger swallow " just wondered if it was related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2hutfDXc0Y

[chenyaolong]

Small Tiger Swallow is technically a Chang Quan form which made it's way into some branches of Tanglang Quan

[wayne hansen]

Little tiger was much more southern style and hung gar like
Dancing swan looked much more like that form only done in a more flowing manner
Lion monkey had some of the spinning jumps of that form

[taekkyunbunny]

Lol. Trolling. Think what you like.
I am posting to put the proper information regarding taekkyun to the general audience.

If you felt that way, I am sorry, I did a googled search on taekkyun in english and these are the places I found.
I don't have time for your defintion of "trolling", i live a busy life.
I am doing this b/c I like taekkyun and hope things go best for it.

I was searching for information in English about taekkyun to see what the reputation is among non-Koreans currently.
I gathered most of my information from people in Korea (Kyurlun taekkyun people, Daehan taekkyun people, Widae people for the last 10 yrs)
I don't know anyone from ChoongJoo however.

Basically all the bigger taekkyun federations started w/ TKD background, then met master Song learned a little, and just made up lot of the moves (or mimic'ed Songs moves).
They don't know what they are for.

The more I gather information, the key point is in Wi Dae taekkyun follower Master Ko, as I concluded w/ other Koreans in Korea.

There are 2 Wi Dae taekkyun schools under Master Ko in Seoul I know of.
1. full of Do Ki Hyun's previous students ( they came out of Kyurlun Fed. b/c the taekkyun they were being taught didn't seem right - one of them also saw that book i mentioned.
looked up Master Ko's contact info. Actually came to the US and learned from him and went back and opened up a school. )
2. the right or left hand man of Lee Yong Bok has also came to Master Ko, he learned for about a year and has gone back, he teaches around Seoul University. He is in cooperation of school #1 stated above.
3. There are no schools operated by Master Ko in the US. He does private lessons. There are also that are learning from him in the US.

Here is a Widae seminar. Widae will start to teach more as more people learn and know about the style.

It don't look like Do Ki Hyun's or other youtube taekkyun. It has a "stance", none of that arm down like WTF TKD.... you be the judge.

You talk to the converts, then you will see lot of the truth of whats going on.
They learned the style of taekkyun you see on youtube (WiDae have people from all 3) and they actually have also seen techniques from Master Ko in the US, and Lee in Korea.
They told me what Master Ko/Lee taught them was more toward martial arts (practical application).

I knew from younger age something was wrong w/ Korean martial arts world w/ history. None of the facts add up.
Go to any of TKD don't care exactly which site, they talk like if TKD is 2000 yrs old.

Go to Hwarangdo Homepage.
They have a map of Hwarangdo and its lineage family tree.
Its funny b/c all the history students I met from Korea and the US who majored in Korean history, tells me Silla did subak and takkyeon.
And look at their martial arts map, taekkyun stands alone.
http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO/His ... ry/map.htm

As promised I will make scans of the that book and post it up this weekend.