Overlapping paradigms: bridging knowledge or just a tangent?

[neijia_boxer]

What is your opinion of studying multiple fields of study and mix/compare with your root martial art? Def guilty of doing this in a few ways, examples:

Root practice: Yang taijiquan

overlapped paradigms:
-Yoga and Taijiquan.
-Yang taijiquan and Wu Taijiquan.
-Taijiquan and Ving Tsun.
-Taijiquan and Chanquan (longfist).
-Taijiquan and Baguazhang.
-Taijiquan and meditation (Taoist and Buddhist methods).
-Chen taijiquan and Yang taijiquan.
-MMA/boxing/muay thai and Taijiquan.

Do you think it is detrimental to the pure root practice, or it is just going off on an tangent? Does it waste time in training in the root arts "basics" and diverge from skill sets on the real meaning of the root practice?
One of my teachers said 15 years ago, "Go deep into your martial art (Taijiquan), do not be a butterfly skipping on the water." So I think it is best to stick with the root teachings and go deep in one than several. However, some of the hard work from the other arts, assist the root training. example yoga to stretch the body, changquan and MMA for more warrior level strength and cardio conditioning. Chen taijiquan to help understand the Yang taijiquan's origin.

thoughts?

[yeniseri]

Personally, it is about bridging understanding, usage, and utility as opposed to just repetition of "form' just to say "I can do that"!
It is not about learning Yang style, Wu style, Baquazhang, etc but to learn, comprehend a value of utility, which is usually subjective. When I first started Yang taijiquan training, I found alot of stuff missing, it wasn't being taught, etc so in order to bridge that gap, I became more interested in neigong, yangshengong, etc as one part of the 'bridge'. If I look at what is called TCMA, many alleged holders have 'core' arts as their template and then they build with the art they picked up later. TO recap, here is what limited 'bag of tricks' I have learned over the decades.

1. Based of TKD
2. Yang style taijiquan "form' of various types and styles. Notice that I left off lineage as it is vague for me.
3. Incorporation of Chansujin (silk reeling exercise as root neigong) from Chen style
4. Understanding of incorporation of dingshi, taijizhaung and zhuang fa (basic zhanzhuang postures)
5. Exposre to Chang Dungshneg's Linking form and shuaijiao mechanics
6. 2 man rote attack response scenario. Hated this but I observed that much of the stepping of that type was akin to Sun style stepping mechanics
7. When I tell some of my old student to fill in the "blanks" with Yang style mechanics, I tell them to choose a style they can connect to and with. Some people may find Wing Chun
fits into they Yang style training, others may prefer BJJ (a la T Cartmell) as this is a brilliant synthesis, I do not see Yoga and taijiquan to be of functional value but subjectively if someone is not active enough, the streunous nature of Yoga may be wonderful for them. I would imagine that the Changquan applications conditioning would be excellent providing Yang style (other than form) mechanics would be missing, lacking, not being taught) then Changquan may be applicable.

just a FYI. Before I started learning taijiquan form, I learnet alot of dingshi, posture holding, etc so there was a big disconnect and I considered it boring back then.

[amor]

Yes neija_boxer, to learn the body work or health building exercise from all the 3 main IMA's, if you can, is definitely something you would do well to pick up imo. Because let's face it most of the taiji, hsing-i or bagua teachers out there don't have, or have lost, the full transmission of how these arts were practiced back in the old days from beginning to end. If you're lucky enough to have someone by who knows all 3 and can impart what they know then go for it.
While the health building exercises are pretty similar in all 3 you do have to eventually work out which direction your eventually going to go martial-wise but that's going to be based more on personal preference. However it's not as important as the initial body work phase to make the body strong. I used to some yoga initially but find I don't really need it now so what you borrow from your supplementary arts doesn't have to be set in stone and you can pick & chose or change as you feel the need to do so depending at the level you are at, at present.

[zrm]

In my opinion it's good to have a "T shaped" skillset. Deep in one field, but a broad understanding a lot of others. The broad understanding helps you understand and collaborate with people from other disciplines and incorporate their ideas into your own.

[zrm]

Broad generalization and deep specialization also applies within one's own art. Most good fighters develop a few select movements within their system extremely well. You still need to have a good broad knowledge of the other movements in the system to cover all the bases - react to an unexpected movement, take an opportunity if it turns up. Also, stuff that works well for you may not work for your students. Even if you don't use a movement often yourself when sparring you should be able to show others in your school how to do them so they can specialize in that movement if they want to. If you think of yourself as learning 'martial arts' and not a just a style, the same ideas apply.

[bruce]

What is your opinion of studying multiple fields of study and mix/compare with your root martial art? Def guilty of doing this in a few ways, examples:

Root practice: Yang taijiquan

overlapped paradigms:
-Yoga and Taijiquan.
-Yang taijiquan and Wu Taijiquan.
-Taijiquan and Ving Tsun.
-Taijiquan and Chanquan (longfist).
-Taijiquan and Baguazhang.
-Taijiquan and meditation (Taoist and Buddhist methods).
-Chen taijiquan and Yang taijiquan.
-MMA/boxing/muay thai and Taijiquan.

Do you think it is detrimental to the pure root practice, or it is just going off on an tangent? Does it waste time in training in the root arts "basics" and diverge from skill sets on the real meaning of the root practice?
One of my teachers said 15 years ago, "Go deep into your martial art (Taijiquan), do not be a butterfly skipping on the water." So I think it is best to stick with the root teachings and go deep in one than several. However, some of the hard work from the other arts, assist the root training. example yoga to stretch the body, changquan and MMA for more warrior level strength and cardio conditioning. Chen taijiquan to help understand the Yang taijiquan's origin.

thoughts?

In my opinion these combinations of arts you describe are necessary.
For my own practice tai chi chuan is the primary art but Hsingi and bagua that I practice help the tai chi chuan.
The "combatives" and bjj/mma type of training is necessary to get perspective on how my tai chi chuan is working.

Most people a "spar" with I can control but I had a funny picture of me on line recently of my buddy Ty who is a gracie black belt. In the picture I am on my knees and he is standing behind me. Could not get him off my back lol ...
He posted a caption the said he was just hiding behind me so I could not beat him up. Fact is I could not control the position with him. I learned a lot. With out this failure of trying your art against others you will never be able to refine your art.

You have to ask what and who yup hope to defend from. In the usa most kids played football and wrestled and many boxed. These skills are engrained in our american culture. Most Americans have at least a basic knowledge of those things and now with the UFC most "thugs" know basic mma/bjj.
If you expect to use tai chi chuan for self defense I think you need to know how other arts feel.

Some of the threats we have today the ima-cma people of the past did not have to deal with.
In order to stay relevant any martial art must address the actual threats you are likely to recieve.

[neijia_boxer]

Excellent feedback everyone. the post has alot with tradition vs. thinking outside the box.
thank you.

matt

[Frank Bellemare]

At its core, every art seeks to develop whole body power, i.e. optimal use of the body, and has different methods for achieving that end. I think that's pretty much the main reason for having a "root art".

Every style (i'm talking CMA here) is a method to reach that end. All styles are roads leading to the same destination in that sense.

Of course, styles are also collections of techniques and all have their own strategies. But once you develop whole body power from, say, taiji, there's no reason not to add techniques or exercices from other styles or arts. Your strategy and techniques are your own, they don't have to be style-dependent, as John Wang so often said here.

To my knowledge, that's exactly what masters used to do in the past.