Zhang Jun-feng's Badass Combative Lineage: Query

[willywrong]

Don't dismiss him ken I would love to see some higher martial arts

But if you could see it, would it be higher level. I always assumed that you can't see higher level only feel it.

[edededed]

Dr. Fish: Very interesting about the Yiguandao, it always did seem quite important to those in the organization (e.g. Wang Shujin's students, etc.), but it's always been a bit vague to outsiders what it was all about. Was Yiguandao related to all Gao style branches? Also wondering how prevalent it was among CMA circles back in mainland China (such as Zhang Zhaodong, since he was said to be Wang Shujin's teacher later on). Interesting also how it has much Mizong (Buddhist) influence - from the name, I thought it would have a more Daoist coloring (a la Quanzhendao, etc.).

Also interesting how the Hong brothers seem so different from each other, but yet they were all expelled together in 1963/64. But I guess that relationships are looked at pretty strongly in Chinese culture...

Also, your unique experiences in Taiwan always continue to amaze me - seems like you could write a very big book about all that... (Also, I think you would have been a great advisor for governments, etc. regarding Chinese/Taiwanese culture - with your unique deep understanding of both that and Western culture.)


Matt: I think it should be "Dale Shigenaga" perhaps? (I'm not super-familiar with the Gao line, but at least what is written in the image seems wrong.)

[kenneth fish]

It was intentionally kept from outsiders - after all, the religion was illegal in Taiwan until 1987, and has never been legal under the Communists. Xue Dian, a great martial artist, was shot for being a local leader of Yi Guandao. It was so widespread and influential that both the Nationalist and Communist governments considered it a serious threat to their administration. I cannot speak for all Gao branches - but all of Gao Yisheng's first and second generation students (by which I mean the first group he taught, followed by later students) who are on Master Gao's own lineage chart were a part of the Yi Guandao.

Zhang Zhaodong was, as I mentioned, a local leader in Tianjin, a very important one. He had very high level government and underworld connections - his primary source of income came from the brothels that he owned.

The primary Yi Guan Dao texts that I own are very much (I would say at least 60%) Buddhist inspired or taken directly from Mizong Buddhist texts. They are also encoded - and one must be taught how to properly read the texts in order to understand some of the practices.

I left government service in 1989 to return to run a couple of businesses full time. I later returned to school to be able to return to medical practice, which was what I was trained to do in Taiwan. I have never regretted leaving government service - it is mostly geared towards people who aspire to mediocracy at best.

[Andy_S]

But the book Ken - the book....?

[kenneth fish]

Yeesh. You don't have to mention it every few weeks. Its being written - but patients, charts, and billing come first. I will also have some video instruction material available in a view-only, non-download format (a la Gymnastic Bodies format, which I really like) towards the end of the year.

[kenneth fish]

One more thing Yi Guandao - it was for a long time a "mainlanders only" club in Taiwan. The mainlanders for the most part did not trust the local Taiwanese enough to spread the teaching among them - they were afraid it would give the Taiwanese leverage over them.

[Bhassler]

Its being written - but patients, charts, and billing come first.

Have you considered crowdsourcing your insurance billing out to RSF? What could possibly go wrong?

[edededed]

Dr. Fish: Ah - I knew that Xue Dian was killed, didn't know why until now! Xue Dian, Zhang Zhaodong (I thought he was a lawyer ) were both quite influential xingyi figures - was Yiguandao quite influential in the xingyi world, too? (For example, when Zhang Zhaodong, Li Cunyi, Liu Weixiang, Cheng Tinghua, and Liu Dekuan started their pseudo-kinship thing where they taught each other xingyi, bagua, and taiji - would that have affected Cheng, Liu, and any others not in Yiguandao (i.e. would they have joined that, too)?)

I agree that government is not the best choice of vocation (medicine is definitely of more use to the world) - it's just that you seem very qualified to give balanced advice. (I also often dream of learning proper medicine - but alas I am stuck in the monotonous world of digital forensics it seems...)

[kenneth fish]

Have you considered crowdsourcing your insurance billing out to RSF? What could possibly go wrong?

I just snorted my evening tea out my nose.

[neijia_boxer]

No, Matt, but you did come to study with me. As I was not taken with your history of moving from teacher to teacher (with no real skill to show for it) I recommended you take up boxing - and you seem to have learned from it. Furthermore, it is obvious that you are acting on someone else's behalf in your replies - which will be duly ignored.

Just acting on my own in research for truths, discriminating from all angles.

Ken, you have a lot of people who admire you here, and at one time I was very interesting in knowing what Zhang had taught you based on all your forum talk. Truths came to light.

On the positive, You spoke many good things on the forum and about Hsing-i and learning in Taiwan. You are a highly educated person, well thought out posts, a doctor (i see your medical knowledge as your true skill), and have spoken so much about your many teachers and styles learned. Over the years I've picked up on you learning:

1. Wing Chun under Henry Leung in NY.
2. Cotton Boxing.
3. Lohan boxing
4. Western Boxing- Gleason gym in NY.
5. Tongbei
6. Xingyi with Zhang Jun Feng and wife.
7. Pilates
8. Coney Island Strongman training.

Many times someone talked about a style of chinese martial arts here on the forum you knew someone of that style and learned some in Taiwan, HK, or somewhere else.

so it seems you too are familiar with moving from teacher to teacher. Back when I visited you in 2007 or so, you were taking Xingyi lessons with Yang hai. I guess Zhang may have not taught you and RWS very much, as Hong was known for telling this to people.

Having great teachers does not equate to having great skill. But the fact remains the same...we have nothing to see of all this "high level skill" of yours and you will never be able to meet the legacy of the Hong, his students, grand students, great-grandstudents. The legacy of "bad assery" as far as I have noticed and researched is alive and well in the Hong Line.

[kenneth fish]

Matt:

You are of course entitled to your opinion, as well as to be a mouthpiece for others. Good luck with your training.

[shawnsegler]

Who pissed in your porridge, Matt? Not putting up videos has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with privacy.

I've been to see, Dr. Fish as well and found him and his students to have real skill.

Anyway, I'm disappointed to see such venom. Surely between those of us who've been here for more than a little while there's no need to air stuff like this in the open. If you have beef of this nature with someone it seems like the right thing to do is to take it to PM.

I mean it would be different if it was over something that was concrete that could be discussed but this...well, this sort of thing is why I don't post here nearly as much anymore.

Sigh....

S

[Fa Xing]

Yeesh. You don't have to mention it every few weeks. Its being written - but patients, charts, and billing come first. I will also have some video instruction material available in a view-only, non-download format (a la Gymnastic Bodies format, which I really like) towards the end of the year.

I'm a newly graduated DC and have no idea when or where you find the time do anything outside of patients, charts, and billing!

[kenneth fish]

Forte 8000 helps. But yeah, I get in at 9:00 AM and if I am lucky I can get out by 7:00 PM. On nights when I teach I come in early to finish paperwork from the day before. Good luck with your practice!

[yusuf]