Article: Relax (song) and lightness (qing)

[Martin2]

Nothing special, but a nice little article from Shanghai

Enjoy reading

Learning from experience: Relax (song) and lightness (qing)

http://taichi-philosophy.blogspot.de/20 ... relax.html

[D_Glenn]

The opposite of Qingsong is Chenzhong (heavy and sinking (like an anchor) hard; serious).

To gain a quality one should first do its opposite. Like a Tiger stepping walking down the mountain to prey is using Chenzhong. When it pounces and kills it's Qingsong. And then until it has to eat again it can be Qingsong. Like the Tiger we need to hunt before we can eat.

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[yeniseri]

That makes sense but it isn't always spelled out in many circles.
In all branches, they talk about fangsong (relaxation) but few mention the 'cat walking' element within process and conditioning as opposed to the 'willy-nilly placement of feet without utility or understanding.

[Bao]

To gain a quality one should first do its opposite. Like a Tiger stepping walking down the mountain to prey is using Chenzhong.

In all branches, they talk about fangsong (relaxation) but few mention the 'cat walking' element within process and conditioning as opposed to the 'willy-nilly placement of feet without utility or understanding.

The "trouble" in tai chi, IMHO, is that people tend to express things in a very single minded manner. To become light and flexible, one must have quite a substantial leg strength. Any professional dancer know about this. The lightness of jumping and moving around comes from strength. And I have said before that in tai chi, the people with best rooting have the best footwork. It makes sense, there's two sides of every coin.

[meeks]

The opposite of Qingsong is Chenzhong (heavy and sinking (like an anchor) hard; serious).

To gain a quality one should first do its opposite. Like a Tiger stepping walking down the mountain to prey is using Chenzhong. When it pounces and kills it's Qingsong. And then until it has to eat again it can be Qingsong. Like the Tiger we need to hunt before we can eat.

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so if I want to get get at 'heavy and sinking' I should first practise lightness skills as posted by Martin?

[NoSword]

@Meeks there is a certain grain of truth to that, plyometrics and ballistic stretching form the foundation for heavy, sunken stance work.

AK

[willywrong]

Nothing special, but a nice little article from Shanghai

Enjoy reading

Learning from experience: Relax (song) and lightness (qing)

http://taichi-philosophy.blogspot.de/20 ... relax.html

All of the below in your article I have mastered except for line 3. The teeth touch each other very lightly


The mouth is lightly closed.
You breathe lightly through the nose.
The teeth touch each other very lightly.
The tip of the tongue supports very lightly the palate.
You swallow the saliva very lightly.
The head is erect, as if one carries a bowl
and the apex is very lightly stretched.
The eyes look without effort very lightly forward.
For the outward movements of the hands lightness is needed,
for the inward as well.
In steps the leg is lifted only lightly
and very lightly down again.

[meeks]

I"m still a firm believer that there are specific exercises for developing certain skills. If you want to practise light mastery, practise the light mastery exercises. Don't spend years trying to be heavy first.
Reminds me of certain schools where you say:
Q> how should I breathe when circle walking?
A> oh, you want to learn how to breathe? You should pay for our qi gong classes also. You will learn it there...

Q> how do I apply the movements from this form you taught me?
A> oh you want to learn to fight? You should pay for our san da classes also... you will learn to fight there...

Q> how do I train the punch in that form?
A> oh you want to learn to punch? You should sign up for our xing yi classes also... you will learn to make a fist there...

yi tong bai tong - open 1 gate open 100 gates.

[D_Glenn]

Both aren't really natural abilities so there's initially a lot of work to be done.

But I'm talking about more literally practicing chenzhong for, say an hour, and then practice being qingsong for the next hour. Practice both. Balance.

But like he says in the article, these words have a double meaning, qingsong also means aloof or not serious, so he clarifies that you still need to be serious and hardworking even though you're trying to be and feel effortless.

It takes a lot of hard work and sweat to make something seem effortless.

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[Bao]

I"m still a firm believer that there are specific exercises for developing certain skills. If you want to practise light mastery, practise the light mastery exercises. Don't spend years trying to be heavy first.

Sure, focusing on specific exercises for certain skills. I can agree with that. But still, you can't really separate yin from yang. The harder down you press into the ground, the higher you can jump. Lightness jumping skill is based on the legs being strong and heavy, not "light". Yet both qualities, being strong and heavy, light and nimble comes from exactly the same practice.

Just my 000,2 cents, don't know exactly what I wanted to say with that, but in IMA, like the short article shows, there's a tendency to look at things in a very single sided manner. I don't think that this kind of generalisation is good for the learning process.

It takes a lot of hard work and sweat to make something seem effortless.

Yes. So why are people in IMA taught to imitate the results of a teacher without having gone through spending time and effort and working hard? Generally speaking, there's something very strange about learning in the IMA. At least if we speak about mainstream CMA.

[D_Glenn]

Regarding some of the posts on this thread, 'lightness' in the article is not 'lightness skill' (qinggong - ability to leap high). He's talking about in Pushhands, so it's about a lightness in the whole body and especially in one's arms.

People are typically already 'light' but this is what we call a dry heat, like heat rising up a chimney of a fire or furnace. What you want instead is a lightness that's more like the mist that rises into the air at the bottom of a waterfall. Hence needing the Chenzhong and idea of water naturally draining downward, but not too much because you don't want to make your body like a swamp or marshland.

Fixed step Pushhands then transitioning into moving step and there's even a greater tendency to want to use the wrong type of lightness.
Another analogy is that you want your arms to be like the leaves on a branch and the opponent only feels the leaves and never finds the branch or the trunk. But many people actually are like the dying leaves in Autumn that just fall off in the slightest breeze.
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[Bao]

Another analogy is that you want your arms to be like the leaves on a branch and the opponent only feels the leaves and never finds the branch or the trunk. But many people actually are like the dying leaves in Autumn that just fall off in the slightest breeze.

Very poetic, I liked that analogy.

[meeks]

Sure, focusing on specific exercises for certain skills. I can agree with that. But still, you can't really separate yin from yang.

this has nothing to do with Yin and Yang principles. I hate talking like some esoteric master, but if the reference to yin and yang are intrinsic principles within an exercise or technique then yes I'd agree with that as a no brainer. But to attach the principle of 'lightness skills are yin and heaviness skills are yang' you're going to hear my eyes roll quite audibly. (I say this playfully)

The harder down you press into the ground, the higher you can jump. Lightness jumping skill is based on the legs being strong and heavy, not "light". Yet both qualities, being strong and heavy, light and nimble comes from exactly the same practice.

Based on the legs being strong and heavy? ummm..no. There's a lot more to lightness skills than the physical 'how hard can a press down' - and pressing down has zero to do with 'being heavy' skills. And I'd say muscle tissue has very little to do with any of it, although the aspect of *coff coff* 'lightness skills' we see today are simply parkour style skills which in itself is far from lightness in the aspect of 'qing gong'.