Body Slam

[bartekb]

I think BJJ should treat the body lifting as arm bar, leg bar, or choke, and give winning to those who can lift the other guy's body complete off the ground.

+1

I wish I had thought of that. Instead of removing the technique from sports clearly lifting a person off the ground and placing them should be awarded as many points as a clean throw. Otherwise it breeds complacency to it.

there are other rules in IBJJF which make much less sense which I believe should be removed first
IE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mTTcwu3WEQ
also if you want to critcisise bjj - I would start with gi, I personally love to train in a gi but it gives you a plethora of options that might be available only when you grapple with someone in a very resillent jacket (same actually applies to shuai chiao in a degree)

I like the "no slamming" rule as it encourages more technical ways to deal with a guard over less technical ways - it can get silly sometimes as it is the case with any rule limiting anything, also I would never let my kid compete if anything that includes things like slams (likewise I would never let my kid compete in anything that includes hits to the head)

The real solution in my opinion is - to grapple often, to grapple with different people and different rulesets, keep the mind free of limits and learn to adapt:)

[chud]

Seems like the right response for the situation

Agreed, the slam seems like the proper response.
If someone is hanging on you, either your front or your back, why wouldn't you let gravity do the rest?

[bartekb]

Agreed, the slam seems like the proper response.
If someone is hanging on you, either your front or your back, why wouldn't you let gravity do the rest?

you might be unable to generate enough force for the slam to actually work, whils you are beeing choked and the other guy is wiggling aorund
Please note quite a lot of those slams in the videos above were in the context on person not expecting the slam as it was agains the rules,
also one can misjudge the situation easily - when someone has you in a front guillotine slamming him might end up with breaking your own neck etc.
I agree that playing closed guard for logger time in MMA context is high risk strategy

[Ba-men]

Slamming isn't allowed in some organizations for BJJ. However others do allow it and what you see is less guys jumping guard.

in MMA ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cO0tdGxjqk

I think a lot of guys missed your point Middle... and it was my initial thought too when i viewed the vid. There is a correct time to jump guard. There is also... knowing when to bail on a guard and move to another strategy/tactic etc.. Getting slammed is extremely effective (I think the technique has been shown in MMA... to be highly effective) One doesn't see the "slam" that much because most NOW who compete in MMA venues know when to jump guard and when not too ) I like the idea of giving the same points as a throw. In the 1980's here in the Midwest when I trained Judo we made jumping guard illegal because either people where eating knees (by the guy jumping guard) Or more times than not, the a slam resulted as an escape attempt.

[Steve James]

I dunno. I think that body slams (and I think you mean a la Rampage J.) aren't permitted purely for safety reasons. Yeah, it takes away an option and it would work "in the street," but (especially for amateurs) is it worth it? For one thing, if one is aware that it could be done, one is much less likely to allow it to occur. That is, unless one gets into fights regularly. With all the concerns about concussions and brain injuries in other sports, it makes sense (from simply a business pov) to eliminate those techniques that can cause serious or irreversible injuries. Why not allowing pile-drivers, for ex? But, in general, I think it's a huge mistake to compare sport with street-fighting. The main difference is intent, not? And yeah, one cold make an argument against boxing in general. If you've ever met a punch-drunk fighter, you'll know what I mean. If high-impact slams are permitted, people will just use them more. Maybe, before changing the rules, there should be a study of head and neck injuries.

[dspyrido]

All this is down to your personal goals. Want to win a comp? Then complain when someone slams you and win on disqualification.
Want to win a real fight without any care of the opponent's well being? Learn to slam and pile drive and the other person will probably will need an ambulance. Last time I saw it they did.

[wiesiek]

Seems like the right response for the situation

Agreed, the slam seems like the proper response.
If someone is hanging on you, either your front or your back, why wouldn't you let gravity do the rest?

same here,

when I was tournament fighter :
- there was simply >mate< command from the judge ,
when somebody was lifted from the ground. -it prevented injury while allowed lifting

In fact, we used it always when you liked to break opponent action on the ground, ,/lift no slam /
it was kind of "no points reward"
and
lifting somebody during ground games is not just pure "raw" strength tech.,

[Steve James]

lifting somebody during ground games is not just pure "raw" strength tech.,

Hmm, is it "internal" or does it use muscle?

For ex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOLpJ63cusA

How to practice?

[bartekb]

the one with ARona is unfortunate:) on the other hand in similar situation when he slammed Vovchianchyn like that Igor just continued to bang from what I remember.

[johnwang]

If sport can build bad habit for combat, there is something wrong for that sport rule. In stand up wrestling, if you use "waist wrap hip throw", it will give your opponent a free hand to punch on your head. This is why the "over/under hook hip throw" is much better. Your opponent's free hand won't be able to reach to your head and you can use it in both "sport" and "combat".

The same requirement should apply to BJJ "jump guard" as well. If it's good for "sport" but not good for "combat", why do you even bother to develop such skill?

[100kilos]

I agree with John on the whole jumping guard, I dislike it and I also dislike all those weird spider and worm guards. They are great for competing but lack...I don't know how else to put it but the martial side to it, if that makes any sense. I feel the whole jump guard in BBJ comps has lowered many (not all some high level guys are good at this), takedowns and throws from standing position.

[bartekb]

I feel the whole jump guard in BBJ comps has lowered many (not all some high level guys are good at this), takedowns and throws from standing position.

thats true
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/are-jiu- ... nce-in-mma
on the other hand most people I know that do bjj compete in no gi, quite a lot of them in judo, quite a lot in MMA - they know how to take down, I have actually never met anyone that does pure competition bjj

[johnwang]

When your opponent slams you onto the ground, you have to release your holds and use your arms to protect your own head. This seems to contradict to the BJJ "jump guard" and "pull guard" strategies that you try to drag your opponent down by your weight.

The following picture is a wrestling double legs. It will create the same "body slam" even if you are not using "jump guard". If you try to hang on your head control, your own arms won't be able to protect your own head.

[bartekb]

When your opponent slams you onto the ground, you have to release your holds and use your arms to protect your own head.

not always

[wiesiek]

lifting somebody during ground games is not just pure "raw" strength tech.,

Hmm, is it "internal" or does it use muscle?

For ex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOLpJ63cusA

How to practice?

use muscle internally , of course

how to practise? -
kattlebel swing 15 minutes everyday