How Bruce Lee/Kung Fu influences MMA

[GrahamB]

Very interesting article by my favourite martial arts writer - Jack Slack - looking at how the techniques of Kung Fu, once laughed at, are starting to appear again in modern MMA. Article is a bit too Bruce Lee-centric, but there you go - they had to hang it on something

http://fightland.vice.com/blog/return-o ... f-fighting

[Dajenarit]

I personally want to see more Capoeira in the future. Some of the groundstrikes found in Silat I think would make an interesting skillset too.

[Dave T]

Interesting article - Jack Slack always writes intelligent material

[Ba-men]

Great Article!..

Recent years though, we have been seeing a move in many of the sports elite strikers towards a more side on stance, and an emphasis on very low kicks

Bones Jones is one of the main guys I see employee a lot of TCMA techniques. I always get a chuckle when a read a Joe Rogan wannabe blast TCMA... As if any of them actually knew what to look for... or know for that matter what actual TCMA is..

The only fault I have with the article it kind of "alludes" that BL came up with the concepts or "refined them" so they would/could work.


Example:

Lee's thinking was against dictated by that idea of the longest weapon and the But a single trap is enough to land a good punch. And one punch should always lead to more.

Lee's thinking was against dictated by that idea of the longest weapon and the closest target.

Perhaps the most important principle in Bruce Lee's philosophy was that of intercepting.

Simple traps are standard issue TCMA
Strong hand forward... again quite common in TCMA
Intercepting... again standard issue in TCMA.
Even his approach to initiative... Standard issue. (not mention in the article)

Although BL was ground breaking and iconic, none of the above was new to TCMA.

IMO Parker and his Kenpo guys were just as instrumental, to American MA as a whole... What Parker was doing is/was straight Quanfa... I never have seen the forms they do outside of his organization.. but it's all definitely Chinese.

Still solid article though.

[zrm]

I've always been partial to some of the stuff coming out of Erik Paulson's group and the Minnesota Martial Arts Academy who have producing top tier MMA fighters for ages. While they mostly focus on the usual MMA stuff - catch, boxing, bjj, muay thai - but are not afraid to take concepts and tactics from various other less common arts such as JKD, kung fu, FMA, savante, judo etc. Erik Paulson and a few others from that group trained extensively with Dan Inosanto back in the day and the influence still shows.

[Rabbit]

Really?

I dont see any evidence that these 'developments' are coming from TCMA

[robmix]

Simple traps are standard issue TCMA
Strong hand forward... again quite common in TCMA
Intercepting... again standard issue in TCMA.
Even his approach to initiative... Standard issue. (not mention in the article)

Although BL was ground breaking and iconic, none of the above was new to TCMA.

IMO Parker and his Kenpo guys were just as instrumental, to American MA as a whole... What Parker was doing is/was straight Quanfa... I never have seen the forms they do outside of his organization.. but it's all definitely Chinese.

Still solid article though.

Agreed…. Parker's forms look Chinese because they came from James Wing Woo. Hung ga based, and what Sifu James later called Woo Ga. But that's a whole other thread…..

[Ba-men]

Really?

I dont see any evidence that these 'developments' are coming from TCMA

To a "Rogan'ite" probably not.

Chuck Liddell didn't get the over hand right he used to such effect from wrestling or from his Koie Kan Karate... he got from his Kempo roots.

MMA has been drawing from everywhere... for a long time now.

Modern times
Jon Jones' oblique kicks are straight out of xingyiquan, WC or any other Quan fa art that uses low kicks.. They are not used to the degree he uses them in arts like Wrestling, Karate, jujitsu Muai Thai etc (the main MMA influences) His elbow are not the traditional run of the mill Muai Thai.. but look right out of the standard issue Bagua manuel.. or just about any Indonesian art employment of elbows...(again TCMA )

There are a plethora of MMA fighters using these tactics as well as many others that did not come from the original base for MMA (Jujitsu, Wrestling, Kick Boxing/Boxing)
Not new developments... New to MMA ... Yes. New to being performed "and seen" at a professional athlete level Yes...

but not new...
And if they are not new... Where did they come from?

[Wanderingdragon]

I give Bruce Lee credit as the father of MMA, but not because of his high skill in CTMA but because of his lack there of, only mastering the rudiments of WC and dabbling in all else. A strong work ethic, a creative mind, and the desire to be a badass, his only claim to fame, of course there was hollywood. I still believe, had he lived his circle would have brought him home to tradition and probably there he would have discovered the internal and higher level arts, no longer needing to hone skills one finds that basic is advanced. Bruce hadn't gotten there yet, evidenced by his trying to create something new because of his disdain for his "classical mess", that which he did not understand was to lead him Into "classic simplicity".

[Rabbit]

These guys have not trained in silat or hsing i to find there kicks and elbows. They train mma. There are only so many ways a body moves so of course they find and develop

Its not 'from' CMA though. They don't train or learn the forms or the body method. I doubt Jon Jones has even heard of ba gua

[Bao]

I think this has been said by several EF/RSF veterans... That in both the good ol' times and today, "traditional" TCMA is MMA. People and styles might share many basic jibengong, but people practice kicks, throws and forms from various styles and mix it all together. Isn't this how "Kung-Fu" always has been practiced?

[Wanderingdragon]

MMA is non-existant, the name itself tells you it is a conglomeration of techniques from different and other styles, the only thing MMA is, is hard committed training, something non-existent in the traditionals today , of course if you go back to the time of their necessity, that same hard committed training was a fact of survival. And yes for all you sport fighters, that's where your idea of sport fighting being the real deal comes from, you are right, if you don't train hard you will not survive in the ring. Though in the world of reality, survival is in finishing, that could be as simple as a brick, but if your living or lifestyle is dependent on fighting, yes you better be training, but that would be your job right ?

[Ba-men]

These guys have not trained in silat or hsing i to find there kicks and elbows. They train mma. There are only so many ways a body moves so of course they find and develop

Its not 'from' CMA though. They don't train or learn the forms or the body method. I doubt Jon Jones has even heard of ba gua

Really? .....

Where do u think these coaches came from... MMA school? MMA is an evolving plethora of arts all rolled into one... When they first started their base was Jujitsu & wrestling then they incorporated muai thai and kick boxing... then boxing and then.... and then... etc etc And when they did that, (incorporating) just where do u think they got the training? From a book? No... they went out and hired the best coaches and competitors to teach them boxing, muai thai etc etc... And the last time I checked one of Jones' favorite striking coaches is Brandon Gibson who was trained by the Mike Winkeljion (one of the best striking coaches in all of MMA!)

Guess what Mike Winkeljion background is? Kempo! he's a 5th dan in kempo.... ala chinese quan fa... ala TCMA!

Jones might not know where the elbows techniques came from...(I doubt that.... but the guy training him sure does!

[GrahamB]

Er....

Jon jones:

You’ve referred to Bruce Lee as an inspiration. What do you take from him into the Octagon?
I use his philosophy of crashing and flowing with my standup. It’s all about visualising going from zero to 100 and striking like a cobra. I try to stay completely relaxed and cerebral at all times when I’m fighting until the moment of impact, when it’s time to explode. Once I see an opening I go from a wave to a tsunami and crash through it. That definitely helps me to move faster.

http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/fighting/u ... -jon-jones

[allen2saint]

No offense to his fans, but I think mixing arts was a reality way, way before Lee came around. Smith's Masters and Methods describes many people who studied a lot of things and blended them. Sun Lu Tang is an obvious example.

I've always had a problem with the "discard what is not useful" thing, I guess because I often hearing it coming out of the mouths of people who 1) wouldn't know the difference anyway and/or 2) have a predisposition to devalue traditional training and 3) grativate toward a solely utilitarian view of the arts.

I don't know jack about Ip Man or any of the Wing Chun guys but I think they were pretty patient and decent people to tolerate Bruce popularizing the view that traditional arts are ineffective and that Bruce, who I understand did not take part in many real fights, had the anwers.