what can be learned from a book?

[bruce]

jiang rong qiao, yang cheng fu and sun lu tang are 3 notable internal martial arts teachers who wrote books about their arts.

many say you must have hands and correct instruction in order to learn ima.

what were the goals these teachers and others like them who wrote books and instruction manuals had for the students reading them. jiang rong qiao for example in the forward to one of his books does advise having a actual teacher and i am paraphrasing said the books can supplement the real teacher.

how do you advise people use the information that is available from books and now video to the best result in their own training?

[johnwang]

Will you be able to learn something just from the following picture even without a single word?

[willywrong]

Will you be able to learn something just from the following picture even without a single word?

Of course you can learn something especially from a picture and written words can lead one to insights. 40 years ago there was very little extra material available to learn from but today I think there's probably too much material and this defeats the actual having of it. Just a quick look at your picture and I can see the little bloke under the big bloke attempting some sort of throw. The big bloke has hooked his leg over the little bloke's leg and taken his left shoulder and just for some fun were call it the single whip hand shape and is exerting energy down to his left elbow jamming the throw. A longer study of this picture also if one was receiving instruction in this art or one similar would be very beneficial. Nice picture John. I like pictures like this as most of the books that I studied in the old days and I still study books only had line drawings and then they were two-dimensional and one could still learn something from them. I think it might come down to how spoilt people are become by the abundant media available in today's world. In the 1500s there was only 500 books published a year on the whole planet. Remember reading that somewhere from a book.

[Steve James]

SLT wrote his book to preserve his understanding of his art. But, he did think that people could learn something from them. He wrote in the intro to his tcc book that since teaching had been oral, there were few instructional manuals, and the ones that existed were often written by less skilled practitioners. Anyway, books, if they do nothing else, expand the universe of knowledge for many more people.

It's interesting to note, though, that many "families" had their own books. Whether they were written and hidden later to be found or for whatever reason, these books were often guarded vigorously. Remember the todo over the release of video tapes of this or that master? Those tapes were guarded like jewels that only the privileged were allowed to see.

[kenneth fish]

Sun Lutang's books were mostly written as an exercise in demonstrating his ability to write in a scholarly (and abstruse) manner. His daughter thought they were absurd, and did more to confuse and encourage mystical thinking. Yang Zhengfu was illiterate - the existing books were written by his students as a reference for the postures. Jiang Rongqiao wrote his later manuals as teaching materials to compliment actual instruction.

Can you learn from them? From Jiang's book you can get some decent explanations of the basic level of the concepts.

[johnwang]

A: How did you get his leading leg into your hand?
B: I knee him.

Can you develop a useful technique just from these 3 words "I knee him" by adding proper "entering strategy" into it?

[willywrong]

A: How did you get his leading leg into your hand?
B: I knee him.

Can you develop a useful technique just from these 3 words "I knee him" by adding proper "entering strategy" into it?

Now you've got his leg what are you going to do with it.

[Ian]

I like Tim's throwing and guard passing books.

Absolutely you can learn from books. Use any materials as education, not entertainment.

How do you learn. Focus on one concept for a month in as many situations, variations, combinations as possible. Take notes, analyze, step back and decompress, revisit etc.

[johnwang]

deleted.

[bruce]

Will you be able to learn something just from the following picture even without a single word?

upon first glance it shows me a method of stopping a throw by wrapping the leg and controlling the shoulder.

[jim]

You could probably learn some things from books if you already had a good understanding of the body and how it moves. I don't think a beginner would get much.

[Steve James]

The issue is not learning. A person can learn from a word or a picture in a book or from a moving picture. One can also learn from seeing, feeling, hearing, or touching a master. However, the issue is doing, not learning. Just because one's read it, seen it, felt it, or heard it does not mean that one can do it.

Afa SLT's book, I have to agree that his explanations are esoteric and difficult to understand. It may also be true that the wanted them to be. I'm also not sure who he expected to read the book and whether they were the same people who'd practice the illustrations. Otoh, I think that we'd all agree that it'd be better to have a teacher who understood and could demonstrate the practice. It's like reading a book on Chinese tcm; no matter how simple the words are, it will take someone who understands them to make them useful. That person should be considered the student. Others are just readers and observers.

Yeah, students often write down the words of people with whom they've studied. That is the basis for much literature in general. Chaucer never published a single story.

[Bao]

Does it need to teach? A book can be a great source of inspiration. A beginner learn that there can be several ways to interprete a movement or form and that a style can have many different flavors. This very basic understanding and inspiration to seek out more is IMHO extremely important.

[Steve James]

@Bao, if you were addressing me, I don't think that the student always has to teach him or herself. If we're talking about tcc books, per se, I totally agree that reading about the experiences and practices of other styles is inspirational. I think that many people have sought out tcc (and other arts) because of seeing books about it. I'm definitely guilty of having a tcc library. Well, it's my second library. I bought a bunch of books and practiced a lot. Then, I gave away the books. Then years later, I was sentimental about those old books; so I started trying to find them. By that time, the late 90s, a flood of books came out. This was because of publishing done by English-speakers. I will bet, however, that any old-time tcc practitioner will have a few books in Chinese They're like Playboy, most used for the pictures.

[Bao]

I will bet, however, that any old-time tcc practitioner will have a few books in Chinese They're like Playboy, most used for the pictures.

But hopefully they don't become that sticky...