the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Hello everybody,

as I am a Taichi-student I learn a lot about jin (or jin-power).

How is it in Xingyiquan and Baguazhang.

Is the term here used as well?
What is the meaning here?
Is it also differentated in different jins and if in which ones?

May be someone can help me.

Great thanks

Martin2

Qi = energy
Jin = use of energy or force.

You use Jin in every movement. The focused use of Jin is sometimes called FaJin or "warrior/combative force"

In my system of hebei xing yi we differentiate between hei jin (dark jin) and an jin (bright jin). Dark jin penetrates or impales an opponent driving through their centre. An jin explodes on the surface or just under the surface. Most of our strikes are dark jin strikes, they displace and unbalance as well as hurt.

There are many other specialised ways of using jin. Many of them are just classifications or groupings of different ways in which you use energy (qi). The essential thing is that you have to do something to qi to make it into jin, the way in which you make jin determines what type of jin it is. E.g. spiral force = tsuan jin, expanding/contracting force = beng jin, frictional force = nian jin etc.

Before you can effectively use jin in xing yi you need a good structure and good grounding in the basics of the art. You can still make jin and you can still hurt people using xing yi without any real jin or internal force, however in this way it is still very much external in nature. As you get better things become more internally focused. this is an enormous subject and very difficult to achieve, i've really only just started to touch upon this myself and i probably know more of the theory than i can actaully apply. I'm still learning

For us each different movement has a specific jin or type of trained force.
All the Jin's require the body to be held differently and they are very rich in detail.
My teacher usually just calls this "getting the right force", since most of his students don't speak Chinese (self included).
Within Xingyi you also tend to get interaction with the appendages and the area around the organ that the movement is associated with.
The best example is Pao Quan, since you turn your chest with the strike (Pao is associated with the heart). Another good example is Zuan, which uses the lower back/kidneys to create the force.
There is much more to it than that, as jin is a pretty complex subject, and like PAndrews, I'm still learning new things every day.

In Ba Gua Zhang, there are also many types, shapes, or qualites of Jin.

some main ones;

1. Twisting (coiling) or ning Jin. They are from the rotation of the waist, the steps, and the wrist/forearm etc.

2. Walking or zhou jin. This is more difficult to explain. A gain of power from walking away or into a more advantagious position. Tai chi has the same ideas. (This is most important in Ba Gua zhang as the classics said Yi Zhou Wei Yong or use walking to apply your fighting).

3. Chan Si or silk reeling, similar to Tai Chi, but with some different "flavors".

Gun (rotation), Fan (flipping/reversing), Zuan (penetrating)-----

Zoujin, not Zhoujin But yes, this is a specialty of baguazhang.

Not sure if people talk about chansijin in baguazhang, though.

- Uatu the Pinyin Watcher who may convert to Yale Romanization

edededed wrote:Zoujin, not Zhoujin But yes, this is a specialty of baguazhang.

Not sure if people talk about chansijin in baguazhang, though.

- Uatu the Pinyin Watcher who may convert to Yale Romanization

Ed, I just wanted to say that in Cheng style, even though it may not be called Chansijin, there is a lot of silk reeling type movement involved. Especially concerning the coiling and uncoiling of the limbs.

In Bagua, we call it Freddy because we're on such a familiar basis with it. Taijiquan only talks about silk reeling, we Bagua guys get to hang out with it in the VIP.

I believe Adam Hsu codifies it that way...not sure. I know Ted Mancuso does on his bagua vid.

S- constantly amazed at all the random MA based things I have in the back of my head

ah shit, this is SO BTDT, but I'll allow it for this incarnation of the forum--it's been a while now.