New article by Yang Hai: Hard force and soft force in Xingyi

[xingyijuan]

Well, Master Yang is in a roll. Here is his new article:

http://www.internalstyle.com/index.php? ... es&lang=en

I think he got the idea from all the questions and critics on his youtube videos saying he was doing the forms either too fast or too strong.

Enjoy!

[mixjourneyman]

Nice.
Thanks to you for posting it and Mr.Yang for writing.

[JAB]

What kind of roll is he in? Crescent? Dinner?
Interesting article.
Thanks
Jake

[mixjourneyman]

What kind of roll is he in? Crescent? Dinner?
Interesting article.
Thanks
Jake

What is a crescent roll? Is it like a croisant or something?

[shawnsegler]

BBQ eel and flying fish egg roll.

S- ready for lunch already

[mixjourneyman]

BBQ eel and flying fish egg roll.

S- ready for lunch already

Yam tempura roll.....


mmmmm.... gonna have me some of that tomorrow evening!!

[Felipe Bidó]

I see that Mix and Shawn are in a roll of inserting off topic comments in the martial threads.

Get a compass and stay on topic you two.

I haven't read the article, but I'll give it a deep read when I get home. Yang has always interest stuff to say.

[Felipe Bidó]

OK, I gave it a quick read.

The progression in Xingyi has to be understood, and it's clear that many XY practicioners out there don't practice the beginning stage too much. With only a few months of practice, they throw away the "hard" training to condition their bodies (like training the forms with power, or doing repetitions of Dragon Jumps or Chicken Walk for example) to move to a softer approach. In most cases, this is just laziness. All they get is a form with no base and no power when it comes the time to use what is learned.

Train with evident force (Ming Stage) to develop power. Then you can move to more refined stages.

[shawnsegler]

Do you need me to give you my agonizer?

S

Edit: My bad Felipe. I chill out. Back on topic.

Sorry.

[nianfong]

yeah I liked that article a lot. Thanks to mr yang for posting it!
reminds me I need to keep training the dragon walking etc. which one is chicken walking?

-Fong

[Felipe Bidó]

Chicken Step from XYLH, or, do a series of chicken stepping, like your standard half step beng quan, but at a 45° angle.

[Bao]

Interesting indeed . . .Five or more years to focus on hard force . . . Well, I guess not everyone teach this approach.

Do you think it is easy to go from hard force to a softer one?

For instance, if your main focus is taijiquan, then a completely external approach is very hard to comprehend. If you have this approach to XY, how can you combine taijiquan and xingyi? Taijiquan starts from emptiness, balance and relaxation to develop a very refined and sensitive body awareness. I guess it is somewhat understandable that you must make a choice if you want to combine these arts. Some people might care more to develop hard force first, even regarding their offensive approach in TJQ. And some people with a softer approach might skip much of the ming jing practice of Xingyiquan. Either way, you might turn one of the styles into something that it should not be, or does not need to be.

Also, if you learn a very hard kind of force first, do you think that it is easy to re-learn a softer force? If you allready know how to bash someone's brain out with hard force, why would you even care to switch to another shenfa, or refine your shenfa? What's the point?

[kenneth fish]

My first five years (maybe 7 or 8, now that I look back) learning xingyi was strictly learning mingjing - I learned about an and hua, but I trained at the ming jing level. I still go back to ming jing regularly - it gives you feedback on joint alignment, balance, and reflected force that practicing at the an and hua jing level do not. Each time you improve in whatever level, it informs what you have done before, and if you are being meticulous in your training you go back and practice the foundation (in this case ming jing) with a new understanding.

You really cannot get an jing or more if you do not have the muscle control etc from ming jing (this is true in shaolin as well). As for softening up -- ming jing is not "hard' - not in the karate sense. Yes, it took some time to transition to an jing training - but that is the progression, and if you have a teacher who can demonstrate what you need to know, it is not difficult.

[nianfong]

felipe, so the it's basically just pao quan footwork without the follow step in the middle?
ie:
45 deg step out to right
empty leg, chicken style, right leg weighted
45 deg step to left
empty leg, chicken style, left leg weighted

[mixjourneyman]

Dr.Fish, it is interesting that you mention hard in the karate sense, since I have had the good fortune of meeting Karate people who had lightness of movements and relaxed power that is not dissimilar to xingyi exponents. By the same token there are also many xingyi people who practice their art like overly hard karate.