Taijiquan vs Punching and Kicking

[Chris McKinley]

Walk the Torque,

RE: "Now days I work on blending my kicks in with my stepping and evaisive movements and my hand strikes using eliptical trajectories (within a 15inch diameter) on various planes, that can be used from close and stand-up grappling range. Also combination palm strikes practiced on pads, then worked into sparring.". Sounds eerily close to what I do these days as well.

Now listen up, kids.....ellipses are our friends!!

[Sprint]

Hi Chris and Bao

I tried looking for the thread about the Pussification of Taiji, but I could n't find it. No big deal. I can see that it would become a bit boring going over the same old stuff time and again. Thanks for the replies.

[WILLIE]

there's no such thing as taiji (verses) kicking and punching.

taiji is the blending of heaven energy,earth energy threw man,thats all.

taiji is a fighting art. thats it.

this is my vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilVJArpTa0

do not limit yourself to postures,find qi bind with it, and the hundred million will appear

[Dmitri]

I'm not entirely sure Dmitri would suggest makiwaras, etc. for folks under 30 either.

You're right, as usual. I wouldn't -- nothing terribly wrong with them, when practiced correctly, but that's an entirely different training progression from taijiquan (or other IMA) IMHO.

this is my vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilVJArpTa0

Kudos for posting your vids.

[WILLIE]

Sprint, ok I hear you. It is not always so easy to explain all the exercises you work with, but here is a couple. First, let me say that I spar with people from different styles regularly, and my taijiquan works very well.

For the taiji class, the most simple is to attack with random strikes and kicks, starting controlled and from rather slow speed. You must use a taiji shen fa to defend yourself - you cannot tense up, you must relax, have alignment and work with your root.

One exercise is that the attacker (and only he) wear boxing gloves and tries to hit you hard, with good speed. This is a kind of sparring, where the defender use taijiquan, the other person act as a random boxer or other martial artist.

In my class, we practice striking on different surfaces and protections. We do this for a session every single class. If you want to defend yourself from kicks and punches, you should also learn to strike hard. And of course, we use only taiji principles when we learn some awesome striking power.

this is a pretty good way to learn how to defend strikes but we must learn to injure are opponents,so while this is better then most ways to get it. it is still very limited.

this is a problem with taijiquan,the strikes are so powerfull that they kill. so how do you train it?
so we avoid,box instead,grapple,chin na. i know my strikes will kill for sure,chosing the lower path is the only option.
nice reading thanks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilVJArpTa0

[somatai]

you do look deadly

[Chris McKinley]

WILLIE,

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am trying to offer constructive criticism, but a lot of your statements come across as if you were reading bullet points from a marketing pamphlet for Taijiquan. I know from viewing your clip that you are an adult, but are you perhaps somewhat new to the art? If so, that's ok....I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm at all, but please keep in mind you are talking to folks, a lot of whom are many-year veterans of internal arts practice and/or are considered somewhat knowledgeable resources on these arts. Some of your statements come across as if you were telling them something you think they are hearing for the very first time.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. RE: "this is a problem with taijiquan,the strikes are so powerfull that they kill. so how do you train it? so we avoid,box instead,grapple,chin na. i know my strikes will kill for sure,chosing the lower path is the only option.". This kind of statements sounds a bit too much like the kind of marketing language we would expect to see on the cover of Black Belt magazine...."Kill any man alive at will!...Be a deadly fighting machine in only 2 easy lessons!". That sort of stuff. Saying you know your strikes will kill for sure is either a) a bit braggadocious if you know this from direct personal experience in taking another person's life, or b) empty rhetoric and absurdly unfounded if you do not know this from direct personal experience. Either way, it comes across a little cheesy.

Characterizing boxing and grappling arts as somehow "taking a lower path" is both naive and childish. Once again, such choice of wording is overwrought hyperbole, and is part of why for so many years MMA people viewed TMA practitioners, and IMA people in particular, with such disdain and laughable contempt.

We who practice IMA here on EmptyFlower are pretty well sold on the benefits of neijia arts already, so we don't need to be sold, but most of us aren't interested in having a mutual congratulations society where we all drink the Taiji Kool-Aid.

[Bao]

Thanks Chris.

[WILLIE]

1 i didn't find any thing constructive in your comment please enlighten me! your highness
2 marketing, i don't sell anything,when i train people it's for free.
3 6 years taijiquan,26 years in the arts.
4 yes there may be some good thinkers here,thats why i joined the forum.
5 well i'll refraze, i'd rather not strike full power on anyone, so boxing is a good source for real combat experience.
6 i never bragg about anything,i come from years in hard karate to MMA and that means you fight! no one braggs.
7 personal experiences (i'll keep that for myself thank you)
8 cheesy? don't dress me up in your clothes! (it's you wear it)
9 MMA guys laughing at IMA isn't because of people like me ( i am MMA) it's because people like you.
10 need to be sold, well maybe i'll speak my mind now,i don't like the way you talked to me. it sounded like the last master i encountered,ha. well he lasted less then 8 seconds. but just before that well he had plenty to say about his (structure),his (rooting),his (internal powers) hell sounded just like you! lasted less then 8 seconds. (your clothes wear them).

now enlighten me,please tell me something,something grand something that couldn't be but is. maybe instead of trying to put yourself on a higher plain then others, maybe you could help others to the higher plain.

so who's new?

[Chris McKinley]

See, now you come back with childish bullshit rather than directly refute my points if you thought I was in error. You don't know anything more about me than I do about you in all likelihood...and yet I criticized the style with which you make your points rather than attack you directly, while you come back with definitive statements about me. I'm sorry if you got your feelings hurt by my criticism. Once again, that wasn't the point nor the intent, which is why I explicitly mentioned that I was intending to give constructive criticism.

However, you put forth as evidence for some kind of point the anecdote about how the last "master" (though you didn't say of what) you met, you defeated in some form or another in 8 seconds. Are we to assume that you simply attacked him, or was there some kind of agreement to fight? Regardless of which, what exactly is the point of that anecdote? Do you either a) consider yourself capable of defeating anyone you encounter, or b) consider that all people everywhere who train in IMA are perfectly represented by that particular practitioner? Which of those points are you trying to make by mentioning that encounter?

See, even responding like you did comes across as rather immature and silly. Do you think you are the only one on this forum with any real combat experience? If so, why waste your time with us? If not, then what is the point of your pointing out what a badass you are?

[WILLIE]

you go fuck yourself!

[Chris McKinley]

Wow...what a completely airtight argument that is. You certainly disproved my initial assessment of you, and showed that you can handle constructive criticism in a mature way as well. I apparently had you pegged all wrong.

[WILLIE]

Wow...what a completely airtight argument that is. You certainly disproved my initial assessment of you, and showed that you can handle constructive criticism in a mature way as well. I apparently had you pegged all wrong.

there was no construtive criticism,only condensending remarks.

o k i just went back and read the first comments i made to your thread, i feel that my first comment i made to you was of good nature.

then i read your first comment back, now go back and read them before you write me again.

cheers

[Chris McKinley]

RE: "there was no construtive criticism,only condensending remarks.". No, it was an exhortation for you not to sound so condescending to us, and that is constructive. Like I said, you were talking to us like we're hearing this stuff for the first time. Many of us have far more familiarity with and longer training in the Chinese internal arts than you do by your own claim of six years.

RE: "o k i just went back and read the first comments i made to your thread, i feel that my first comment i made to you was of good nature.". Which part was of good nature...the sarcastic and childish "enlighten me! your highness" comment, or the part where you bragged about beating up some master in 8 seconds?

[WILLIE]

RE: "there was no construtive criticism,only condensending remarks.". No, it was an exhortation for you not to sound so condescending to us, and that is constructive. Like I said, you were talking to us like we're hearing this stuff for the first time. Many of us have far more familiarity with and longer training in the Chinese internal arts than you do by your own claim of six years.

RE: "o k i just went back and read the first comments i made to your thread, i feel that my first comment i made to you was of good nature.". Which part was of good nature...the sarcastic and childish "enlighten me! your highness" comment, or the part where you bragged about beating up some master in 8 seconds?

like i said ,you have nothing usefull to say at all.
nothing good!

and thats a reflection of the mind