do you know your Taiji (Tai Chi) aka yin-yang?

[Bao]

Here is where I heard this Tai chi symbol information for inspiration for this thread:

i have it starting at 9:11 into the lecture where the TCM Dr. talks about it. "not many Chinese know this" she says.

http://youtu.be/G72zA-dquoI?t=9m11s

So because one young TCM chic says that one is the correct it means that it is so?

But it's an interesting interpretation, not only from a TCM stand point, but from a neidan position. From a neidan POV, "Fire above, water below" means that only Post Mortal Qi is used. To use and develop Pre Mortal Qi, which is the aim of neidan practice, the "heart fire" must sink down to the stove, the "dan tian". When the fire goes below the water, there will be steam. This means that in an IMA view, the upside down version with yang below yin is the correct one when we practice, as that is what we strive for.

[yeniseri]

All i see are cows and milk

[taiwandeutscher]

The Taiji is never static, always moving, so there are several possibilities according to former/later heaven.

[Niall Keane]

There's two ways to go about this...
1. Study the origin and early use of the symbol, understand the times of the day and seasons that are symbolised by the symbol in different positions etc. This is how the symbol is MEANT to be used.
2. Take later or parallel and associated theories or take a writing symbols like the symbol for chi - fire under water releasing steam etc. And disregard the original scope of meanings and uses by the designers and the school who invented the symbol
and impose a new flaky meaning that suits... That is complete bollocks.

And if course we are now hitting on why so much CMA and Ima in particular has degraded into new age nonsense.

[Bao]

There's two ways to go about this...
1. Study the origin and early use of the symbol, understand the times of the day and seasons that are symbolised by the symbol in different positions etc. This is how the symbol is MEANT to be used.

Well, if you want to follow the original meaning, the symbol wasn't used for anything. The meaning of the term is "change". The Taiji Tu, or the Taiji diagram is a symbolic picture of the creation of the world and the forces that keeps the world together.

"Ultimate void is the supreme ultimate[Taiji].The supreme ultimate moves (dong)therefore generates yang, when movement reaches its extreme, it generates rest (jng). Rest generates yin. When rest reaches its extreme,it will return to motion. Motion(dong) and rest(jing) alternate and become the root of each other. Thus the distinction between yin and yang is made and two forms(liangyi) are established. The transformation of yang with the unity of yin generates water, fire, wood, metal, and soil." (Zhou Tunyi, creator of the original Taiji diagram)

http://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewc ... t=phil_fac

But if you think that you know better and knows about how it was originally "used", I bet that you have good sources to provide...

And if course we are now hitting on why so much CMA and Ima in particular has degraded into new age nonsense.

And what did you mean exactly by that.... ? IMHO, in this context, thats quite a ridiculous statement. This is a discussion on chinese philosophy, not on martial arts. IMO, if you can't separate the two and the see the difference then you are just.... Ah, forget it... say no more...

[Niall Keane]

So you quote a passage regarding the philosophical concept rather than the use of the symbol in question... See the error you made right there?

Now, put the cone on, stand in the corner and carry out some impartial research, not simply seeking validation ya dunce ya.

[Niall Keane]

[wiesiek]

>do you know YOUR TJ<

yes I do - short answer
it`s moving - full a.

[Niall Keane]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the symbol isn't supposed to represent the changes of yin and yangand so rotates, it's just that the snap shot represented by each drawing of the symbol represents specific attributes too.
As such there is an auspicious use and otherwise for the symbol, many of the superstitious considered Bruce Lee's use of the destructive cycle
symbol the yin yang turning anti-clockwise for his jkd a reason for his early demise.

IF one is professing to teach a daoist art such as tcc perhaps they should at least get this right?

[wiesiek]

yes,
get it right ,then teach.

however symbols are, well, eem, symbols....
you may do not care about them, in highly manual oriented art.
Scholars has to do something in their life cycle to.

poor Bruce
he has his own 5 minutes , dough
nothing new in our competitive society to put the life for exchange5 minutes of fame

btw, his followers still live, far away from strokes or developing cancer from overdoing his method.
so
it can be "different method" case , that`s all

[Niall Keane]

Like I said... "superstitious"

And of course for a practical martial art it hardly matters. I also stated as much on the last page.

However there is only so much madey-uppy reasoning one can read. And I hate when people use references out of place to back up a claim, it's kinda almost lying, or at least holds a degree of dishonesty. Better say this is what I think.... Than call someone else wrong using a reference to something else. The something else is of course the older tai chi symbol the empty circle with an inside and outside and is based on tenth century daoist yin yang theory mixed with five element. Close but no cigar as they say. Its not strictly referring to the tai chi symbol this topic is based upon.
For example Irish now uses the Roman alphabet. So capital letters donate start of sentences just like the yin yang symbol discussed refers to seasons etc. There is zero point in calling such false through a reference to ogham writing which doesn't have capitals. Sure the sentence is the same, the language the same (ish) but the symbols the subject matter of debate are quite different.

[D_Glenn]

The really absurd thing about this thread is that there is an essentialially pointless debate over a two-dimensional illustration that was only intented to represent what is a real world, Three-Dimensional concept.



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[Niall Keane]

4 dimensional ;-)

[wiesiek]

make it 7,
I heard not quite new news, recently,
hard to be on the top those days...

[D_Glenn]

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