what's this baguazhang master doing

[meeks]

well, Yang Guotai (my old shifu) had a thick bejing accent although admittedly not as thick as this guy's. I'm not sure if he's just an older generation of mandarin from Beijing or if perhaps he's from a different region where everyone talks with such a muddled accent. Usually a Beijing accent is as easy as 'wo bir dao' (slang for 'wo bu zhi dao') and very easy to understand contextually. I had to listen to this guy a couple of times to get used to what he was saying. My Shimu (instructor's wife) was from ShanDong province and SHE had a super thick accent. For years I never understood what she said to me, but once I moved to China and returned I could understand her thick accent quite well.

FWIW - Yang Guotai was taught by Xu Zhen Biu (or perhaps it's spelled Xu Zhen Biao), who was taught by Liu Bin.

[wingchun]

well, Yang Guotai (my old shifu) had a thick bejing accent although admittedly not as thick as this guy's. I'm not sure if he's just an older generation of mandarin from Beijing or if perhaps he's from a different region where everyone talks with such a muddled accent. Usually a Beijing accent is as easy as 'wo bir dao' (slang for 'wo bu zhi dao') and very easy to understand contextually. I had to listen to this guy a couple of times to get used to what he was saying. My Shimu (instructor's wife) was from ShanDong province and SHE had a super thick accent. For years I never understood what she said to me, but once I moved to China and returned I could understand her thick accent quite well.

FWIW - Yang Guotai was taught by Xu Zhen Biu (or perhaps it's spelled Xu Zhen Biao), who was taught by Liu Bin.

Any chance you could translate the entire video for us?

[edededed]

Cool, I know I listened to the old man quite a few times - very hard to undestand for me, anyway!

One thing cool about the old Liu Bin group is that there seems to have been a great community there, practicing together at Tiantan, for many years! Also good to help keep everyone's skills up, and to share with each other...

[bailewen]

well, Yang Guotai (my old shifu) had a thick bejing accent although admittedly not as thick as this guy's. I'm not sure if he's just an older generation of mandarin from Beijing or if perhaps he's from a different region where everyone talks with such a muddled accent.

FWIW, I didn't find his accent much of an impediment really. Just the first 20 to maybe 30 seconds where he was, I believe, saying the traditional names of the moves. After that, it seemed pretty clear.

Aside from that...if you hadn't piped up, I was just about to give up on this thread.

This has been my one of favorite 2 or 3 "push hands" clips on the web ever since I first saw it at least 5 or 6 years back. Seeing so many people just sort of poo poo it was kind of depressing. Sure, it's not a UFC match. But like I said in my previous post on this thread, some of that stuff is just pure gold and this little 2 or 3 minute clip helped me make some serious breakthroughs a few years back.

[meeks]

Bailewen, I completely agree. Usually I watch about 20 seconds of a video and try to forget about it - most of them are IMO contemporary wushu which I simply am not interested in, despite the fact there are guys that do well with that type of run-run-skip-leap-and-pose-for-the-camera style of CMA. This guy has some serious skill and this is just a tip of the iceberg that he demo'ed on a couple of guys.
I'd assume his accent is closer to the area of China you are in - where I was spending my time in Hubei there is no 'er hua' so it takes awhile for me to acclimate to it. Yang's Baijing accent was 'er hua' but no where as thick as this guy.

[wingchun]

Can someone explain the details of how to do this? or what the science behind this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jl4-0RaG9k

[Bao]

Can someone explain the details of how to do this?

Do what? Dealing with a pressure? Return force? How to roll on the ground?

There are many things happening here, so why don't you explain what you see and what you think is happening?

[wingchun]

Can someone explain the details of how to do this?

Do what? Dealing with a pressure? Return force? How to roll on the ground?

There are many things happening here, so why don't you explain what you see and what you think is happening?

How master Huang is generating such enormous amount of power using minimal movement to project his students bouncing away ?

here are some other clips of what i am referring to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFrkmBZA4_M

[windwalker]

both clips have been shown before
I hope people can talk about whats shown and not
try to disparage the teacher or her practice. .

pick a point on the either of the clips.
This would make it easier to discuses
The teacher in the clips referenced is Ms. Bian Zhiqin.
small write up included with the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I

Ms. Bian Zhiqin is the 20th generation disciple of Chen-style Taiji and the 6th generation disciples of Wu-style Taiji.
In this video, Ms. Bian Zhiqin was teaching students of push hand by inside force of the taiji action
QQ group number is: 39825339.
Welcome to the blog of Ms. Bian Zhiqin:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/bzqtaiji
If anybody want to reprint the video, please also reprint above information together. Thank you.

[Bao]

How master Huang is generating such enormous amount of power using minimal movement to project his students bouncing away ?
here are some other clips of what i am referring to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFrkmBZA4_M

What do you mean? To what exactly are you actually referring to? Some of the methods Huang show looks IMO very different from each other and then you mix with other stuff. Specify a couple of specific moments and explain what you don't understand. Otherwise it's impossible to have some kind of meaningful conversation. Or just say what you really mean, or at least what I think that you mean i.e. = "I have never witnessed anyone doing any kind of effortless technique and I don't believe in anything anyone show. Everything is the same crap."
So are you going to discuss or speak up?

[wingchun]

How master Huang is generating such enormous amount of power using minimal movement to project his students bouncing away ?
here are some other clips of what i am referring to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFrkmBZA4_M

What do you mean? To what exactly are you actually referring to? Some of the methods Huang show looks IMO very different from each other and then you mix with other stuff. Specify a couple of specific moments and explain what you don't understand. Otherwise it's impossible to have some kind of meaningful conversation. Or just say what you really mean, or at least what I think that you mean i.e. = "I have never witnessed anyone doing any kind of effortless technique and I don't believe in anything anyone show. Everything is the same crap."
So are you going to discuss or speak up?

0:04 and 0:07 into this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I
and 0:05 into this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jl4-0RaG9k

[bruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jl4-0RaG9k

just talking about the first 45 seconds of this huang video.

if you notice huang has the student line up in a certain way so the "punch" end position is studied. the student has to offer resistance. once the resistance has been established huang redirects the resistance or force the student is giving to the "tip of the diamond" or "the weakest angle". from there huang.

this is obviously demonstrating a skill i would like to understand better how this skill is used and exactly what skill is being demonstrated and how it fits into the bigger picture of self defense and health.

surely they are not training to have a person punch them in the gut and bounce them away. it must be training a feeling but i wish people could be more clear on what that feeling is.

[bruce]

both clips have been shown before
I hope people can talk about whats shown and not
try to disparage the teacher or her practice. .

pick a point on the either of the clips.
This would make it easier to discuses
The teacher in the clips referenced is Ms. Bian Zhiqin.
small write up included with the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I

Ms. Bian Zhiqin is the 20th generation disciple of Chen-style Taiji and the 6th generation disciples of Wu-style Taiji.
In this video, Ms. Bian Zhiqin was teaching students of push hand by inside force of the taiji action
QQ group number is: 39825339.
Welcome to the blog of Ms. Bian Zhiqin:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/bzqtaiji
If anybody want to reprint the video, please also reprint above information together. Thank you.

hi ww,

how would you describe to the lay person what she and her students are showing and doing in this video?

[Bao]

0:04 and 0:07 into this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I
and 0:05 into this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jl4-0RaG9k

Again, very different things happening there. First clip, I have no idea about what's happening there. The second clip, or beginning of the Huang clip looks much more physical. The student put his weight against the teacher, the teacher intercept the movement and return this movement against the him. ...And ... appearently, the students have had some rolling practice as well... But there's not something strange within the technique in itself. You could learn it as well and push away people with your stomach.

[windwalker]

both clips have been shown before
I hope people can talk about whats shown and not
try to disparage the teacher or her practice. .

pick a point on the either of the clips.
This would make it easier to discuses
The teacher in the clips referenced is Ms. Bian Zhiqin.
small write up included with the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHk15btS1I

Ms. Bian Zhiqin is the 20th generation disciple of Chen-style Taiji and the 6th generation disciples of Wu-style Taiji.
In this video, Ms. Bian Zhiqin was teaching students of push hand by inside force of the taiji action
QQ group number is: 39825339.
Welcome to the blog of Ms. Bian Zhiqin:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/bzqtaiji
If anybody want to reprint the video, please also reprint above information together. Thank you.

hi ww,

how would you describe to the lay person what she and her students are showing and doing in this video?

I wouldnt, I would let them feel it and then help them to understand what happened, and show them that they could also do it
as I am sure you and many here could do it with a little coaching or maybe different outlook.

In brief she opens, in the first movement, then closes while rotating towards the direction she wants the student to be bounced to.
at the point of contact, the students force is going one way, she makes a small circle yin/yang just using her pinky for the contact point.
This is the force that is throwing them out.

not going to get into the many other things that have to happen to allow this to happen. axes, cross body alignment, ect.
notice how the students continue to spin after being touched by the teacher.

I work with people all the time showing them how many of the same things are done, even being shown and feeling it, many are skeptical
until they reach a point of true understanding. That is, they give up trying to compare it to the way they did / do things and accept that
there are other ways of using the mind/body to cause reactions in others.

It is funny, even in her clip, often people dont believe it.
Those doing it, and those its being done on. The common reaction is "really, did I just do that your not faking it"
The person doing it, often can not feel what they are allowing/causing to happen, the person its being done to reactions are also dependent on how clear their intent is.
With high level people they can compensate and do this to most people, others not having the skill or experiences yet may find it more difficult

Its a static practice allowing people to feel concepts put in use with in a certain context.

I truly dont understand why you and the many here can not see what she and others like her do, and just try it.
My bet would be that with a little trial and error most would get it...Of course whether its useful or not is another matter.