Taiji da shou- 5 hammers of Yang Taijiquan gong fu

[neijia_boxer]

http://polariswushu.net/blog/2015/03/01 ... taijiquan/

[Steve James]

I like that you call them hammers. I think using "fists" is preferable to using "punches." For ex., "turn, chop with fist" (I think's it's your "twist, body hammer") isn't a punch --though it could be categorized as a downward backfist. Anyway, I'd just call it a chop --which is not at all to disagree with your analysis. Hey, did you mention the phoenix fists in your article?

Somebody needs to do analysis of the chops/slaps.

[Bob]

Hmmmph! How dare you call this taiji!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxdlfmr_36g#t=139

Taiji hand conditioning and liniment hand meridian massage



I want my money back!!! I've invested in the wrong art!! Where's the magic! LOL

Great posts and clips!

[yeniseri]

One thing I have learnt from my more astute taijiquan teachers (i.e. through theft meaning through demeanour, attutudional affect and humour ) is to go to the 'source to find out about the great things of understanding.
Some questions
a. Where does this 5 hammer name designation come from?
b Are there exponents of this and where is it taught today? Does present Yang Family teach these 5 Hammers!
c. Is it an Yang family related or is it Yang Style adaption from someone who learned Yang Family?

[D_Glenn]

'Chui' is a pretty standard term for a punch, or other usage of the fist.

There's actually 5 Faces/Surfaces of a standard Square fist that can be used to strike with and that's the name I've heard but I don't know if that's what Neijia_Boxer is talking about.

.

[neijia_boxer]

a. Where does this 5 hammer name designation come from?
Xu Yu-Sheng, Bradford Tyrey translation chui = hammer.
http://www.lulu.com/shop/bradford-tyrey ... 57595.html

b Are there exponents of this and where is it taught today? Does present Yang Family teach these 5 Hammers!
Yes, it is in the Yang Family Taiji Long form, Yang family teaches it, but not sure if they use the "5 hammers" specific name.

c. Is it an Yang family related or is it Yang Style adaption from someone who learned Yang Family?
Both: see A. and B.

[Steve James]

Chui' is a pretty standard term for a punch

They ain't all punches.

[neijia_boxer]

From the book: p.34 Taijiquan Shi Xu Yu-Sheng.

"People of the southern region [Guandong] use the written character “hammer” to refer to a fist that strikes like a hammer, pounding something downward. Therefore, the name of this posture should be ‘Step Forward, Parry, Deflect, and Strike with a Hammer.’

[D_Glenn]

Chui' is a pretty standard term for a punch, or other usage of the fist.

They ain't all punches.

Duh. (That's what I FRICKEN wrote! Steve, did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?)

When you make a fist, being it's at the end of your arm, it's likened to a weapon called the 流星錘 Meteor Hammer /Liu Xing Chui.

A straight punch is like 'throwing' the ball at directly at someone. A hammer fist (Za Chui) is like smashing the weapon down, etc.



.

[Steve James]

Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. My points to Matt were precisely 1) that I liked the word "hammer," and 2) that imv "fist" would be a better, and more traditional imv, word to use than punch, as in "tcc's five punches." That should be simple enough. But, call them punches if you like.

[neijia_boxer]

One thing, that I like about the section I talk about called:
2. Twist body hammer.3x
3. Unload, parry, deflect, and hammer.3x

or in Fu Zhong Wen's book I think he called it "turn and chop with fist" and "Step parry Punch" (I'll double check that later when I get home)
is that when i first learned in back in 1994, the first thing I though of was "Well damn, now here is the lost pugalistic portion of Yang Taijiquan!!"
since it is a quick series of punches and palm strikes.

Later when Coach Pei taught more details of that Long form section, he taught along with it "Da shou" two-man drills, thus it all made sense to me.

[Steve James]

"turn and chop with fist" and "Step parry Punch"

Yep, and imo, there is almost an entire system in this sequence. I liked what you said in a follow-up post about thinking of the fist in multiple dimensions/axes/points of contact.

Another experiment is to mess around with the hand positions: i.e., change a palm to a fist or punch or grab, or vice versa.

Fwiw, when we did tournaments and trained with gloves, we found that being able to use a fist (closed hand) for uses other than striking was useful.

[neijia_boxer]

in Fu Zhong Wen's book I think he called it "turn and chop with fist" and "Step parry Punch" (I'll double check that later when I get home)

wanted to get back to this:
In Mastering Yang Style Taijiquan by Fu Zhongwen he lists them as:

Postures containing the hammers/punches:
#12 Advance step, deflect, parry punch.
#24. Turn body and strike.
#25 Advance step, deflect, parry and punch.
#34: Advance step, plant punch.
#35: Turn body and strike.
#36: Advance step, deflect, parry punch.
#44: Advance step, deflect, parry punch.
#66: Turn body and strike with White Snake spits tongue.
#67: Advance step, deflect, parry punch.
#74: Punch Toward the groin.
#82: Advance step, deflect, parry punch.

Xu Yusheng lists them in his book as:

#8- Advance, Parry (remove), Deflect (block), and hammer, (strike).
#23- Twisting body hammer.
#24- Unload step, Parry (remove), Deflect (block, and hammer, (strike).
#35- Forward step, plant hammer.
#42- Overturn body, and twist body hammer.
#60- Advance, Parry (remove), Deflect (block, and hammer, (strike).
#66- Brush knee and crotch hammer.
#72-conclusion contains- Advance, Parry (remove), Deflect (block, and hammer, (strike).

One thing, that I like about the 'core section' I'm talk about called:
[ Twist body hammer + Unload, parry, deflect, and hammer]
..... or as Fu Zhongwen lists as:
#24. Turn body and strike,
#25 Advance step, deflect, parry and punch.

....is that when I first learned in back in 1994, the first thing I though of was "Well damn, now here is the lost pugilistic portion of Yang Taijiquan!!," since it is a quick series of offensive punches and palm strikes. It has a nice rotational action with consecutive rolling punches using whole body power. It feels much clearer as boxing than it does Chen fajin.

[edededed]

I have heard of practicing the five fists (wuchui) separately - perhaps it was a short routine - in Yang style taijiquan.

As for chui (hammers), those huge melon weapons are chui, too (in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, the chui props were quite obviously hollow)
In Liang style baguazhang, there are also two kinds of "chui" weapons - one sort of looks like D_Glenn's picture above, except that the balls are a bit smaller, and the ropes are duplicated and separate, so you have two balls with their own (short) ropes; another looks like the balls, but with solid metal "stakes" stuck into them. I think Fan style might have big, melon-type hammers, too.

[yeniseri]

a. Where does this 5 hammer name designation come from?
Xu Yu-Sheng, Bradford Tyrey translation chui = hammer.
http://www.lulu.com/shop/bradford-tyrey ... 57595.html

b Are there exponents of this and where is it taught today? Does present Yang Family teach these 5 Hammers!
Yes, it is in the Yang Family Taiji Long form, Yang family teaches it, but not sure if they use the "5 hammers" specific name.

c. Is it an Yang family related or is it Yang Style adaption from someone who learned Yang Family?
Both: see A. and B.

To judge a thing (veracity/discernment), I have been unable to find any references in present methodology to Yang Family taijiquan with 5 Hammers hence my questions. It seems to be a domain of Xu Yu-sheng of his Yang generation but unknown since no other Yang Family or Style uses that terminology!

So that I can find a link, can you tell me which Yang personage (Jianhou, Chengfu, Shaohou, etc) or student other than Xu Yu Sheng, who explicitely teachers the 5 Hammers. I believe I have seen some references to Li Zheng and even Dianzhen? who uses said terminology. I am also trying to track down others!