Dantian Power

[Bao]

I have no intention to discuss underwear.

[lazyboxer]

I have no intention to discuss underwear.

And that's why I prefer to go commando

[Michael Babin]

Getting back on topic [sort-of]... I have been told several times over the decades by 'experts' that you should only wear silk pyjama-style outfits when you train and with the really long sleeves that cover the hands so that you qi doesn't leak when you train. I only got sour looks when I asked playfully about how much do I have to worry about qi leakage when I go to the bathroom. Real Masters apparently leave their sense of humour at home when going out to do workshops.

P.S. Two of the three times I heard variations of that statement, the speaker was coincidentally offering raw silk outfits for sale at lunch and break-times. Who would have thought!

[Graculus]

Rather than grant you additional 'powers', so to speak, I heard that silk jammies (and baggy clothes in general) were popular partly because they hid what you were doing (i.e. how the body was moving) and whether you had anything in your hands (in potentially more dangerous situations). It seems in keeping with the general penchant for secrecy in CMA.

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com

[D_Glenn]

Devlin, Bao, Amor

The jury is still out on the timing and advisability of replacing worn-out underwear. In these straitened times it makes good sense to revert to the ancient and respectable practice of simply sewing in new knicker elastic. Here's the dope:

http://tinyurl.com/pv5jjzc

Fortunately our ever-practical friends in China have made it easier than ever to do so.

http://m.alibaba.com/showroom/elastic-band-for-underwear.html

With the price of Calvins and other fashionable branded knickers continuing to skyrocket, some of our martial brothers here who may be alarmed by their dwindling dojo income might do well to consider a 10000 metre purchase for $200. Does $50000, a return on capital of almost 25000%, sound tempting enough for you to buy the wife two dozen red roses and a sewing machine? $5 for a good-as-new pair of Y-fronts will win you many new friends and soon put the new Beemer you've been dreaming about in front of your house.

Go for it now, while you still have first mover advantage! And remember - you read it here first.

Well most of my underwear is in the state of condition that Jerry Seinfeld describes where essentially all the molecules of underwear fabric have disintegrated and all that's left is just the waistband and fringes and tatters of fabric hanging off of that.

So just buying the elastic waist band could be the money saving way to go.

Thanks for the links.

.

[amor]

I guess some people like to talk it up via their translations and at times they thesmelves don't fully understand what they are translating and/or writing about while trying to draw some accreditation by their affiliations with so-called grandmasters and their time spent with said person.

+1

Amor,
Apparently Bao understands what you are asking. I don't have a clue what your initial question even was. But +1 means that he's agreeing with you, so he obviously has the answers you seek.

(I finally just figured out that "Boxers dropping down" is your underwear!

I do not know why your underwear is falling down. But Bao might.

If I was to guess I'd say it's probably just a worn out elastic band. Buy yourself some new underwear. Under Armour makes some good compression boxer briefs now.)

On the matter of "Exhaustion", have Bao bring back some good Ginseng for ya, or something similar. I just don't know.

Why is the sky blue?

I don't know. Send Bao a PM and ask him.

(Actually I might PM him myself and ask him what "waist to hip length" is, since you still haven't replied to that question.)

.

Haha very funny good laugh... ok now we're finished with that let's continue with the topic.

Right, the thing about waist to hip length ratio, this wasn't the most important thing but let me clarify anyway (but I should have known I would put my foot in it by alluding to imagery of underwear). What I was saying was that despite all the standing, forms and other training my body was not developing the flesh that I was hoping it would. Instead its become skinnier. This is highly surprising for me, someone who used to have quite a big belly, but was mostly down to drinking too much beer and eating fatty/fried foods.
So the skinny waist was welcomed but at the same time I thought I should really be packing on more pounds and I was 'wondering' if maybe this is indicative that my training is not going according to plans. You, yourself have mentioned in some posts how you should be developing flesh something about placing the thumbs on the laogong points which causes more flesh apparently. if you do and I assume you do then you should know that if you do add more flesh then that same fascia/muscle does take time to become integrated with the body to become firmer and more noticeable perhaps. Not unlike a power/weight lifter that develop a muscular body which is obviously very notice, but just a 'IMA body' that is noticeable in its own way without appearing to become 'skinny'. It's probably hard to get since I haven't posted any pics but I will do when I have ironed out a few kinks. I got some 'bit's' that look odd but I guess one benefit of not having so much mass (since I gave up power/weight lifting upon doing IMA) is you can see clearly how lopsided our bodies become with age and bodily tension. ANyway thats all I will say on that, feel free to comment as you see fit, now you know about the whole underwear thing


Now the more important thing, I mentioned about the aspect of whats going on with the pre-heaven qi/jing when you do IMA training. You know Dev, we do qi harvesting training to build internal power, yes we do, hope you agree with this. I know you like to talk alot about your zhedie and zhanhuan, bolang jin etc. Which is all fine and great stuff to know but these are all mechanically driven concepts and more to do with Internal Strength imo. There is a difference between Internal Strength and Internal Power but suffice to say you need the Internal Strength before you can develop any sort of Internal Power/Force. Internal Strength is associated with the internal physical musculature which we are not always consciously aware of, something YOU know about from your 20+ years. And once developed enable fancy mechanical movements like bolang jin, zhedie etc.

So the Internal Power is the energetic manifestation of cultivated chi via qi-harvesting training. Every person has the ability to develop it yet not every body has it because it needs to be trained. So internal power is a combination of pre/post (food)-heaven qi/jing, environmental qi (heaven/earth) afaik, there might be more. So what I was referring to several posts ago was that everytime we train we utilise the pre-heaven qi/jing to get our Internal Power as its one of the ingredients, no?
Therefore if our training is not efficient being excessive in duration and not really having an idea what we are training for (our goal) we could end up depleting our pre-heaven jing/qi and all our efforts to increase and consolidate our internal force is in vain, especially if say, the pre-heaven jing/qi for every one of us is finite as we dont do the daoist training that seek to replenish pre-heaven/jing qi. So we might not have enough left which could be critical if we become injured, involved in a severe accident, or if some disease has taken hold inside and is waiting to come out which it now can because we have exhausted our original qi/jing. No more money in the bank, bankrupt so the organs and glandular systems can not produce the vital substances that the body needs to keep the functioning well. So do you now see the ramifications that I was alluding to previously. I'm sure you know this but perhaps I wasn't clear and I'm sure you get the point now. Do you understand this, does it make sense to you. Please dont mock if you dont understand or agree with this because that detracts from the seriousness of the discussion and that is the way that forums usually die and people go elsewhere. They call it trolling but I'm sure it has many other terms it can be summed up by. If you dont understand something or agree then do point it out but no trolling

[D_Glenn]

Now the more important thing, I mentioned about the aspect of whats going on with the pre-heaven qi/jing when you do IMA training. You know Dev, we do qi harvesting training to build internal power, yes we do, hope you agree with this. I know you like to talk alot about your zhedie and zhanhuan, bolang jin etc. Which is all fine and great stuff to know but these are all mechanically driven concepts and more to do with Internal Strength imo. There is a difference between Internal Strength and Internal Power but suffice to say you need the Internal Strength before you can develop any sort of Internal Power/Force. Internal Strength is associated with the internal physical musculature which we are not always consciously aware of, something YOU know about from your 20+ years. And once developed enable fancy mechanical movements like bolang jin, zhedie etc.

So the Internal Power is the energetic manifestation of cultivated chi via qi-harvesting training. Every person has the ability to develop it yet not every body has it because it needs to be trained. So internal power is a combination of pre/post (food)-heaven qi/jing, environmental qi (heaven/earth) afaik, there might be more. So what I was referring to several posts ago was that everytime we train we utilise the pre-heaven qi/jing to get our Internal Power as its one of the ingredients, no?
Therefore if our training is not efficient being excessive in duration and not really having an idea what we are training for (our goal) we could end up depleting our pre-heaven jing/qi and all our efforts to increase and consolidate our internal force is in vain, especially if say, the pre-heaven jing/qi for every one of us is finite as we dont do the daoist training that seek to replenish pre-heaven/jing qi. So we might not have enough left which could be critical if we become injured, involved in a severe accident, or if some disease has taken hold inside and is waiting to come out which it now can because we have exhausted our original qi/jing. No more money in the bank, bankrupt so the organs and glandular systems can not produce the vital substances that the body needs to keep the functioning well. So do you now see the ramifications that I was alluding to previously. I'm sure you know this but perhaps I wasn't clear and I'm sure you get the point now. Do you understand this, does it make sense to you. Please dont mock if you dont understand or agree with this because that detracts from the seriousness of the discussion and that is the way that forums usually die and people go elsewhere. They call it trolling but I'm sure it has many other terms it can be summed up by. If you dont understand something or agree then do point it out but no trolling

I already answered that, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23227&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=165#p398173

Sort of thoug, there's more too it, from the text you can see that if you do proper Standing practice, then the Weiqi and Yingqi can be circled back around but not all the way back to Pre-heaven Jing, but to Zhen Qi (the cultivated form of Yuan Qi), which with a proper diet is mixed with Zong Qi to become Zheng Qi (which is what we use to practice and provide internal power, but is also used in the everyday normal exercising of a normal human life. But it's all about having a surplus after the exercise or work, it takes energy to perform the exercise, but with correct posture and practicing Zhan Zhuang (Standing Meditation) the energy being converted, exceeds the energy being used to do the work. This excess energy gets returned to the Dantian in the form of Zhen Qi and with continued practice you no longer need to rely on your Yuan Qi and Pre-Heaven Jing, as you are just using your surplus of Zhen Qi. This is called Turning the wheel (like a perpetual machine of sorts).

Getting to the level where this excess Zhen Qi is converted into 炁 Qì requires the practice of Xing Zhuang but that is a whole other thing.

So back to my original point is that being Empty in one's practice, before it's time, and without first building the foundation of blood and qi networks returning to the Dantian/ Inferior Vena Cava then Ying Qi can't be gathered back-in.

Without proper 緊 'Tautness' or in the Zhan Zhuang then the excess Weiqi is just dispersed and can't be gathered back in.

So there is no Zhen Qi, you are just using up your stores of Yuan Qi, (possibly at an even more rapid rate then normal people who don't even do qigong and seek the sensations of qi), and eventually have to tap into your battery power of Pre-Heaven Jing, which is the feeling of increased energy when you switch from gasoline power to Direct Current Electric power.

.

[Bao]

So the Internal Power is the energetic manifestation of cultivated chi via qi-harvesting training. Every person has the ability to develop it yet not every body has it because it needs to be trained. So internal power is a combination of pre/post (food)-heaven qi/jing, environmental qi (heaven/earth) afaik, there might be more. So what I was referring to several posts ago was that everytime we train we utilise the pre-heaven qi/jing to get our Internal Power as its one of the ingredients, no?

Qi has nothing to do what people usually call "IP" in practical use.

[amor]

Getting to the level where this excess Zhen Qi is converted into 炁 Qì requires the practice of Xing Zhuang but that is a whole other thing.

So back to my original point is that being Empty in one's practice, before it's time, and without first building the foundation of blood and qi networks returning to the Dantian/ Inferior Vena Cava then Ying Qi can't be gathered back-in.

Without proper 緊 'Tautness' or in the Zhan Zhuang then the excess Weiqi is just dispersed and can't be gathered back in.

So there is no Zhen Qi, you are just using up your stores of Yuan Qi, (possibly at an even more rapid rate then normal people who don't even do qigong and seek the sensations of qi), and eventually have to tap into your battery power of Pre-Heaven Jing, which is the feeling of increased energy when you switch from gasoline power to Direct Current Electric power.

.

Yes its a bit of a dark art getting to know your body to get an idea about what various physiological changes represent in terms of what's going on internally. Becoming 'skinny' then one could infer that the fat is being burned out as the Zhen Qi starts to fill the dantien which once full starts to overflow towards the exterior namely the limbs and head and becomes stored in the fascia. But on the other hand it could also be indicative of kidney yin depletion despite the 'energeticness' one feels as the body 'taps-in' to the pre-heaven jing.
I think it's important to not have too much sex during this time (usually once every 2 month for me) which isn't a problem for me anyway since my divorce and I haven't gotten out there much since I been pre-occupied with training, work etc. at least then you don't need to be too worried then concerning the kidney's.

Yes I am familiar with the idea of maintaining the tautness to stretch out the tendons. You want to stretch the tendon structure that goes around the body and also the one inside that encompasses the yin fascia and make sure you can feel it's being stretched. There is alot of body-consciousness that must be relied on to feel for areas that are tight in terms of tendons because imo you can't get to the areas until you can feel them. Feeling for qi/blood sensations is good indications that the body is being stretch in those tight areas as long as you don't become attached to recreating those sensations. I tend to stop the zhan zhuang posture when I feel I am not in alignment otherwise you might cause some kind of impingement somewhere.

It's hard not to become paranoid though because obviously you dont want to tap into your yuan qi/jing which as you say is needed when you get to your 70's/80's. I dont know though once you have started this process you either stop and leave your body with the imbalances that you are aware of or you continue on and rectify the imbalances and 'realise your potential'. I dont know if you can recover your yuan qi/jing I have looked into taoists texts that speak of lotus position meditation which apparently describe that when you recover these original substances it usually accompanies penile retraction (yes the penis goes back into the body). You must have read about this as well Im assuming but it sounds like an advanced stage of daoist sitting meditation and I can't even sit for 10 mins in full lotus without my back starting to cramp up

Qi has nothing to do what people usually call "IP" in practical use.
.

Ahh would be interesting to hear how you define and express IP in your learnings as your practices sound familiar and similar to mine from glances of your writings.

[D_Glenn]

Again, I don't know what the heck you are going on about. (And this may be an assumption) But I don't thing that the collective 1000 odd years of practice, that all the RSF members have added-up, could really begin to understand what you are talking about.

Although, on the bright side, this seems to be a phenomenon on internal martial arts forums, which all the long-term members here have witnessed countless times. On ye olde EF you would have been banned months ago, and then IP banned from every computer that you tried to log-in from, but tolerance has become the norm now, and it's good because there's a phase that a lot of people go through when they first start IMA, which is you read about all these fantastic things and you want them so badly that it makes people crazy. It's normally just a semi-short lived phase but since those people were banned, there's no way to really know.

(No, I haven't read nor do I know anything about the Lotus position stuff. There's a thousand different schools of Daoism and I only follow the one that was incorporated into Baguazhang.)

But my gut feeling is that I think you need outside help. Find a Worsley trained acupuncturist or someone trained in classical chinese medicine.

Good luck man.

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[amor]

Again, I don't know what the heck you are going on about. (And this may be an assumption) But I don't thing that the collective 1000 odd years of practice, that all the RSF members have added-up, could really begin to understand what you are talking about.

Although, on the bright side, this seems to be a phenomenon on internal martial arts forums, which all the long-term members here have witnessed countless times. On ye olde EF you would have been banned months ago, and then IP banned from every computer that you tried to log-in from, but tolerance has become the norm now, and it's good because there's a phase that a lot of people go through when they first start IMA, which is you read about all these fantastic things and you want them so badly that it makes people crazy. It's normally just a semi-short lived phase but since those people were banned, there's no way to really know.

(No, I haven't read nor do I know anything about the Lotus position stuff. There's a thousand different schools of Daoism and I only follow the one that was incorporated into Baguazhang.)

But my gut feeling is that I think you need outside help. Find a Worsley trained acupuncturist or someone trained in classical chinese medicine.

Good luck man.

.

well again, you never cease to amaze me, I'm just surprised (really, I am) that you have no idea what I'm talking about but I guess it must be that our practices are definitely diverging. It's hard for me to believe this since I really did think all the paths lead to one but maybe they don't maybe people do develop differently and abilities.

Also I like the way your mind works about banning and multiple IP logins, it sounds like its working overtime but believe me I do not have time for such things LOL.

As for acupuncture, I will tell you that it doesn't really do you any good until you can 'feel' your body, trust me this is from a taichi+doctor type. I have had acupuncture done on me by some of the best, if only you knew who they were you would agree too, but they still couldn't fix some stuff that I my self have managed and if that doesn't make sense to you then well...ok then atleast you appear to be happy with your practices and thats all that matters, being happy

Good luck to you as well man, I think we're both gonna need it

[D_Glenn]

well again, you never cease to amaze me, I'm just surprised (really, I am) that you have no idea what I'm talking about but I guess it must be that our practices are definitely diverging.

I can't remember a time when I agreed with anything you wrote. As far as I'm concerned we are and have been diametrically opposed. 180 degree difference and going in opposite directions.

"Diverging"!?!

Thanks for the chuckle.

.

[Bao]

Ahh would be interesting to hear how you define and express IP in your learnings as your practices sound familiar and similar to mine from glances of your writings.

IP? I have no other definition than using refined, subtle body mechanics i.e. "internal body mechanics".

The funny thing is that you can look at various clips on the tubes where people demo exactly the same things, but have very different explanations. Some people says they use qi, some other says yi and others don't use these words at all. So, it doesn't really matter how they explain something or what they think they do. What they actually do is important, not the explanations.

Qi is not a very useful word to explain what's happening when you use body mechanics. If qi is an ingredient or not is another question and not a very important one. Wherever the yi goes, the qi goes. If you focus on qi it gets stuck. So you should never focus on qi. It's better to not be too concerned about it. Even if you have never heard about qi, it will be developed through proper practice.

[lazyboxer]

well again, you never cease to amaze me, I'm just surprised (really, I am) that you have no idea what I'm talking about but I guess it must be that our practices are definitely diverging.

I can't remember a time when I agreed with anything you wrote. As far as I'm concerned we are and have been diametrically opposed. 180 degree difference and going in opposite directions.

"Diverging"!?!

Thanks for the chuckle.

.

That's the correct spirit.

"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

Winston Churchill, 1940

P.S. Amor, how's your underwear situation?

[D_Glenn]

论太极中的“劲”与“力”

张君

(山东省经济管理干部学院,山东 济南 250014)

提到太极拳,提到“劲”,我们会自然而然地想到练习太极拳 时常提到的一句话:“太极用意不用力”。然而,深谙太极拳理的 人都知道,这里的“不用力”并不是否认太极拳中力的存在,而是 强调太极拳中所用之“力”并非“拙力”,乃是太极之“劲”。太极拳 的核心是技击,而技击的核心是劲、力。劲、力的运使和发放是技 击中能否制胜的关键,同时也是太极拳练习者习练水平的标志 。然而,太极“劲”与“力”的区别与联系却是使广大太极拳习练者 长久以来一直感到迷茫的问题。俗语道“:清能早达。”习拳之人 若不明拳理拳法,弄不清“劲”与“力”的异同,以其昏昏,使人昭 昭,不仅不能早达,反而会误入歧途而终不得法。
1 太极拳中的“劲”与“力” 太极拳注重用意,这是完全正确的,而不准用力却是错误
的。著名太极拳大师陈照奎说过:“天下那里有不用力的武术?” 力是一切运动的基础,太极拳离不开意气力的结合,力是必不可 少的,只是太极拳中所用的“力”并非是我们平时所讲的通常意 义上的“力”。一般太极拳家对于“不用力”的解释是:通常意义上 的力即常人本来具有的力,是拙力,并不是真力(“劲”)。所谓拙 力与真力,即前者指运动时的无谓用力,构成体力散乱,而后者 指运动时力量集中的现象。拙力一则会增加体力的消耗量,使身 体容易疲劳,不能长久的运动;二则会使需要用力的部分不能多 得力,致使技能不能充分发挥。而真力是在全身放松的前提下, 以螺旋形式发出来的与真气相结合的力,是能够达到“四两拨千 斤”、“以小力胜大力”的效果的“巧力”,只是为了区别于一般的
“力”,把它称之为“劲”。
2 “劲”与“力”的联系与区别 2.1 “劲”与“力”的联系
“劲”与“力”好似孪生兄弟,它们既互相关联而又互相区别。 从文字学的解释而言,“劲”与“力”在本质上并没有严格的区别: 《辞海》把“劲”解释为“气力”,《辞源》把“劲”解释为“坚强的力”,
都是一个力字。然而,在太极拳运动中“,劲”与“力”却有极大的 不同。太极拳中的“劲”是太极拳所特有的一种综合素质。和式太 极拳传人和庆喜认为:“气、力、劲本是一体的,而在拳论中却有 分论之别,即气是先天自然之气,力是后天人为之力。后天人为之用力,常非用先天自然之气。而太极拳在姿势变化运转中,则 以气与力相配合,每势完成时要有气沉丹田之感觉。通过姿势转 化,由丹田发出的为劲。”而太极泰斗吴图南先生有言:“所谓太 极劲乃学力也。”他将我们与生俱来的或通过锻炼而得到的力称 之为“本力”,也就是我们通常所说的“力”,而将通过太极拳或太 极功训练得来的力称为“太极劲”。
中国传统医学认为,劲与力皆产生于“气”。“气”之流行于血 脉中称为“营气”,也即“内气”;“气”之流行于血脉之外、皮肤之 内、分肉之间称为“卫气”,也即“外气”。它们均为气之所生,相互 掺杂交织在一起,互为作用,肌肉骨骼乃是劲力发放时的共同依 托,故发劲时不免含有力的成分,此为劲、力之间互相关联的一 面,而劲、力由于产生机制的不同又必然相互区别。
2.2 “劲”与“力”的区别 清代杨式传抄老谱道:“劲由于筋,力由于骨”,“力”由于骨陷于肩背而不能发,而“劲”由于筋而能发,并可达于四肢。二者 之不同在于:力有形而劲无形,力方而劲圆,力涩而劲畅,力迟而 劲速,力散而劲聚,力浮而劲沉,力钝而劲锐;未学太极拳者力直 而虚,是“拙力”,而已学太极拳者力圆而实,是“劲”。劲与力的主 要区别见表 1。
3 结论 现在看来“,力”是人体具有的先天自然之力,而“劲”是在意
识的支配下,通过神经和内分泌系统的作用而发出的随争斗形 势的需要不断变化着的力。“劲”本来是在全身各关节的前提下, 由人体筋腱肌肉的收缩运动而发出的“力”,可达于四梢。而太极 拳不称其为“力”而曰“劲”,是因为其与一般的“力”有不同之处。 一般的“力”,当其离开原发动体之后,都是以直线的轨迹向前运 动,命中目标就产生效果,不命中目标便一直沿直线向前运动, 直到因空气的阻力而逐渐减小,最后消失在空气中,是一种呆滞 不活的拙力。而太极拳之“劲”,则是一种曲线圆活无滞的劲力, 可随外在的需要随时变化发力的时间、方向、大小、路线和着力 点,可变化万端,运用自如。通过长期内功锻炼的武术家,神经系 统的感觉和大脑反应特别灵敏,肌群的伸张、收缩高度自如,因 而与对方刚一接触,便可通过感觉察知对方劲力的大小、方向、 着力点和将要变化的趋向,并能非常及时地做出适合的反应,体 现为劲的变化灵敏而迅速。故劲有曲有直,有刚有柔;缠绕往来, 纵横捭阖;既有定向,又无定向,变化无穷,令人难以捉摸。与先 天之“力”相比,“劲”是通过意识支配,经肌肉有序化收缩,并与 呼吸配合锻炼而获得的力量,其变化更为灵活,随意性更大。
太极“劲”是以各关节间骨缝松开、韧带肌腱伸长,肌肉适度 用力为基础,通过大脑意识支配而产生的一种力量素质,其劲力 灵活多变,其力的速度、方向、大小和作用点可因敌而变,有“内 劲”与“外劲”之分。通过对太极拳运动中人体受力、发力的本质 分析,“内劲”实质上是人体不同组成部分与吸入体内的氧气等相互作用而产生的力,以及由人的意识活动而产生的力,是人体 所能发出的肢体力、意念力的综合。而“外劲”实际上是人体与地 球或对手相互作用而产生的力,是人体所受的支持力、摩擦力及 作用力与反作用力等的综合。从技击方面而言,“内劲”是指一种 发劲时机得当,攻击部位准确,力量用得巧妙,作用效果好的力 的表现形式。

YM

Just an excerpt from the above article

“劲由于筋,力由于骨”,“力”由于骨陷于肩背而不能发,而“劲”由于筋而能发,并可达于四肢。二者 之不同在于:力有形而劲无形,力方而劲圆,力涩而劲畅,力迟而 劲速,力散而劲聚,力浮而劲沉,力钝而劲锐;未学太极拳者力直 而虚,是“拙力”,而已学太极拳者力圆而实,是“劲”。劲与力的主 要区别见表 1。

[And a real quick translation, so:]

{"Jin is from the muscles and tendons, Li comes from the bones." Since Li is the strength in the bones/ skeleton it can't 'Issue/ Emit / Fa'. Since Jin is the muscles and tendons it can 'Issue/ Emit / Fa' [as the wave can pass through these tissues] and transfer the power out to the four extremities. However, neither [muscle (Jin) and bone (Li)] can be separted or apart from one another. Li is the tangible, physical shape while Jin is the intangible, unseen movement. Li is the 'Square' while Jin is the 'Circle'. Li is rough and abrupt while Jin is smooth, free, and unimpeded.Li is slow while Jin is fast. Li is separated, individual parts moving while Jin is all moving together, assembled. Li is floating, unstable while Jin is solid, sunk down, and stable. Li is blunt while Jin is acute. When one first starts to study Taijiquan their Li is abrupt and square, called 'Zhuo Li' (awkward, clumsy power). After studying Taijiquan for awhile the Li becomes round and solid, it becomes 'Jin'. But the practitioner must take care to make sure the differences of their Jin and Li go unnoticed and they work as one, single, indistinguishable unit.}

This is an important point in the IMAs, and the reason I differentiate Fali and Fajin, as everyone needs to start by learning the Biomechanics of moving the skeleton/bones and is only doing FaLi, but gradually this transitions into being able to FaJin.

So you take a square and gradually whittle away the corners and edges until you have something round and spherical, but within that Circle (Jin) will always be the Square (Li), it just won't be noticeable or distinguishable to an outside observer.

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