Dantian Power

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:46 am

This is a translation of my Grand-teacher Xie Peiqi's writing about Obvious, Hidden, and Transforming forces of Internal Martial Arts and the 2 different types of Martial Power - meaning, how a Small movement of the Dantian can transfer to a large amount of power as the movement radiates/ emits out through the limbs of the body, but this emission can be Long/ 33⅓ centimeters/ 1 Foot Power (尺勁 Chi Jin) and is what I call the 3rd power- just a regular Fa Li or Fajin, as I mentioned in a previous post, or the 4th Power called 爆破力 Baopo Li (Exploding Power) a.k.a. 寸勁 Cùn Li​ (Inch Power) which is Short.

On Different Types of Martial Force (Power) - Yin Style Baguazhang
Written by Doctor Xie Peiqi, (Translation by Eric C.)

功夫中的明勁又叫作:外剛勁、整勁、絕妙勁、脆勁、抖勁,也有稱為顫勁。明勁在發放運動上,又有尺寸之分。尺勁和寸勁的區別是尺勁的發放距離較長,俗話說一寸長一寸強,要有發放的位置。寸勁發放的距離較短,俗話說一寸小一寸巧。尺勁的發放距離如是一尺的話,那麼寸勁的發放距離,即在三寸至五寸之間。所以在內家拳中,就是要追求和練尺寸勁。因為在運動中尺勁和寸不僅在勁上有著差別,而且在運動的速度上更有差別。下面我們就談談這方面的道理及功夫。

The obvious force of martial development is also known as "external hard force", "whole (body) force", "exquisite force", "crisp force", "shaking force", "trembling force" or "shuddering force."

When emitting obvious force during exercise, there are also differences in the length of the force. The difference between foot-length force and inch force is that the distance across which the first is emitted is comparatively long. It is said that for every inch of length you have an inch of strength and this force must have a place of emission. The distance for inch force is comparably short. It's said that for each inch shorter, one is an inch trickier. If a foot force should be emitted within a foot of the opponent, an inch force should be emitted within a fist or fist-and-a-half of distance. In the internal arts, it is the foot and inch forces that are sought after and trained. In the execution of their movements, foot and inch forces do not merely vary in regards to their force; the contrast between their respective speeds is even more apparent.

Below we will discuss the theory and development of such forces.


明勁中的尺勁,由於它從發放氣力勁開始至運動的技擊終點為止,整個運動過程的距離較長,所以花費的時間也較長,沿途減力,因此對方很容易及早地發現技擊意圖,有了採取破解措施的準備時間,尺勁在發放過程中,由沿途路長至終點,內含的氣力勁減失一半,所以在動手比手過程中,要應付突然變化,就顯得僵滯呆板招慢,而且尺勁在通過距離的運變,必然要消耗掉一部分力勁。所以它在到達終點時,要比發出來的氣力勁減少一半左右。

As for the foot force of obvious force, from its emission point of circulation, strength and force to is conclusion on impact, the entire process of the movement is quite long; the length of time it requires is also quite long. Along the path of its movement, strength is diminished; because of this, the opponent has a better chance of discovering the intent of one's attack early on and has time to respond with a counter to break the technique. In the midst of its emission, foot force follows a long path until it reaches its terminus and loses about half of its supporting circulation, strength and force in the process.

When fighting or comparing skills, one needs to cope with sudden changes, which makes stiff & non-agile techniques appear slow. Furthermore, foot force must lose about half of its force over the course of its movement as half of its circulation and strength is diminished between the moment of its emission and its terminus.


而內功較深的人,爆發力較強的內家拳拳師,對於氣力勁的運用,則是舍遠而求近,棄尺而得寸的,其目的就是在最短距離中,爆發出最大的沖貫拌氣勁來。我們知道,發放氣力勁距離愈短,到達打擊目標的速度也就愈快,對方的防禦和變化的難度也就愈大,所以內經拳要追求寸勁,也正是因為這個道理。但是要在最短的距離間,發出最大的氣力勁來,卻不是一件容易做到的事情,需要經過長久的鍛煉能夠得來。所以初學的明勁功夫,得到的只是明尺勁,而不是寸勁,尺勁階段,還屬於僵滯之剛勁,而不屬於柔中之剛勁,等練到柔如繩之系,漢如冰之清的寸勁時,方為柔中之剛。

不給對方添勁,發力冷脆快,化力柔小綿軟,但無論是尺勁還是寸勁,都需要逐步掌握和運用好,神、意、氣、力、勁的同一時發放,使氣體、液體、固體三者在一瞬間能夠配合無隙,發揮出整體最大的功夫來。

As for those with comparably deep development and comparably strong explosive force, with their emission of circulation, strength and force, they abandon the far and seek the near, they abandon the foot and seek the inch. Their objective is to violently emit, in the shortest moment, the greatest rushing, connecting & mixing of circulation & force. As we know, the shorter the emission of circulation, strength and force, the faster the arrival of the strike upon its target and the greater the difficulty for an opponent attempting to counter or change. In accords with this reasoning, practitioners of the internal arts require inch force.

Nevertheless, emitting the greatest amount of circulation, strength and force in the shortest amount of time is not a condition that is easily achieved; its development requires long and arduous training. Therefore, new practitioners trying to attain obvious force are only able to attain foot force, not inch force. The stage of foot force belongs to a hard force that is stiff & sluggish, not the hard force that is issued in suppleness; one wishes to train until one can emit an inch force as supple as a rope twisting into knots yet as firm as pure ice. This then is the hard within the pliant/soft.

One should not add to the opponent's force. One should emit a force that is sudden/cold, crisp and fast; one should remove force through suppleness, small (adjustments) and softness. Nevertheless, whether one is using a foot force or an inch force, both require gradual mastery & consecutive use of one's spirit, intent, breath/circulation, strength and force all at the moment of emission. The breath, blood & solids in one's body must combine in an instant of unbroken coordination; this brings the largest amount of development throughout the whole body into play.


從另外一個角度來講,明勁的初練過程,也是易骨的過程,是為力"壯基築體",增強全身各部位關節和骨骼的支撐力量,以及增大各關節的活動範圍,特別是四肢稍節,無論是採用手打或足打,都需要有較大的對抗力量,否則就會在技擊運動中,因撞擊對方而造成自己損傷,所以明勁既是初步的鍛鍊方法(指尺勁),也是最終在實踐中運用的勁節(指寸勁)。

Considering it from another angle, in the first stage of developing obvious force, one is in the process of changing one's bones, using strength to "fortify the foundations and build up the body", while increasing the supportive strength of all the different joints and bones throughout the body as well as increasing the range of motion in all the joints, especially in the extremity joints of the four limbs. Regardless of whether one is striking with one's hands or feet, both require a comparably large amount of resistant strength; otherwise, when one strikes the opponent, one will injure oneself on impact. Hence, obvious force is the first of the methods to be trained (this is referring to foot force) and is later a force used in combat (this is referring to inch force).


明勁在運用上主於進攻,暗勁在運用上主於剋制,化勁在運用中主於順化及領化。明勁、暗勁、化勁三種經不同的修練法主要區別是:明勁在於手,暗勁在於肘,化勁在於腰身。雖然在打法中,不盡然是只限於手,尚有肘打、肩打、膝打、胯打、背打、腕打、拳打、足打、腿打、腰打腰御。但在明勁的初級功夫中,必須首先將氣力勁通達於末稍關節。

In usage, the purpose of obvious force is to attack, hidden force to control, transforming force to transform smoothly with the opponent's force or to lead it with transformation. The primary difference in the methods of practice between obvious, hidden and transforming forces is this: obvious force is primarily expressed by the hands, hidden force by the elbows and transforming force by the waist & body. Although obvious force is about striking, its potential is not limited to the hands; there are also elbow strikes, shoulder strikes, knee strikes, hip strikes, back strikes, wrist, fist, foot & leg strikes as well as striking and removing with the waist. Still, in the initial development of obvious force, one must first succeed in sending one's strength and circulation to the joints of the extremities.


明勁(指寸勁中明勁)並不是孤立運用的,而是要同暗及化勁相互配合使用的,或用暗先剋制住對方的發力,而後緊接著轉換招法,以明勁進攻對方。或用化勁破解對方(又稱"以巧破千斤")然後急轉變剛勁,沖穿貫抖攻擊對方,所以此時明勁的運用,並不是貫穿進攻動作的始終,而只是用於達到目標前的一刹那間,因此稱之為寸勁。過去內家拳老前輩常用"石中火、閃電光、震雷嗚",來形容氣力勁的使用發放和運動,實際上這裡包含著速度、角度、尺寸、距離、時間和力量,說得具體一些,就是爆發勁的速度愈快,沖擊力也就愈大;進攻對方的距離愈近,愈容易給對方增大防禦和破解的困難;時間愈短,進攻愈容易見效。關於角度問題,身體的轉動,手的起落,小臂的擰轉必須是構成九十度(即四十五度加四十五度),或者擰轉四十五度。時間問題,是一個氣力勁爆發的火候問題,既不能爆發得過早,也不能過晚。過早則會使爆發之氣力勁未觸其身,且難收其效果;過晚又會形成尺過己過。所以說過早或過晚都會影響爆發氣力勁的作用。一定細心體會和掌握"近在眼前一寸中"這個火候,才能爆發出來石中求火打閃紐針。穩準狠冷脆快的急中有剛,剛中有柔,而且是始之有謀終之有效。

Obvious force (of the inch variety) is not used on its own, but in combination with hidden & transforming forces. For example, one uses hidden force to control the opponent's ability to put out force/strength, then immediately following this one switches methods, using obvious force to attack the opponent; or perhaps one will use transforming force to break the opponent's technique (also referred to as "using skill to break 1000 pounds"), then rapidly switching to hard force, rushing, penetrating, threading through or shake attacking the opponent. Now using obvious force in these instances does not mean the obvious force is at the beginning or end of movements passing through, penetrating or entering in to attack; rather, obvious force is issued at the very instant before one has reached one's striking target and hence, it is referred to as "inch force".

In the past, older generations of practitioners would use the following lines to describe the emission and movement of circulation, strength & force: "the magma within the rock, the brilliance of the lightning, the cry of thunder". In actuality, these sayings contain the notions of speed, angles, lengths, distance, timing and strength. To put it more concretely, the faster the emission of explosive force, the greater the rushing & striking strength; the closer to the opponent when unleashing one's attack, the greater the difficulty the opponent will find in warding off or breaking the attack; the shorter the duration of the attacking movement, the easier it'll be to realize its effect.

Regarding the question of angles, the turning of the body, the rise & fall of the hands and the rotation of the arms, all must form 45 degree angles or 90 degree angles (namely, one 45 degree angle joining another 45 degree angle).

As for timing, it is an issue of emitting circulation, strength & force at the critical moment; one cannot be too early or too late in one's emission of force. If one emits too early, the explosive effect of the circulation, strength & force will not fully connect with the opponent's body; if one attempts emission too late, the appropriate time will already be far past. Therefore, emitting too early or too late will adversely affect the result/function of the explosive emission. One must attentively experience & master the crucial moment of emission as if it were "as near as an inch in front of one's eyes". Only then can one emit explosively as if "seeking magma within the rock" or "stitching a needle by lightning flash".
Within the urgent violence of stable, accurate, vicious, sudden/cold, crisp & fast there is also hard; within hard there is pliant/soft.
Every technique must initiate with a plan and end with a result.


明勁是練合求剛,暗勁是練沽求柔順,化勁是練靈活求巧妙,合,是上下外內氣、液、固三體相合為一,要體現出一個"整"字來。剛,是要爆發出快中有剛硬(急中之剛謂之真剛)。剛中之急(謂之真急),才為"漢如冰之清"的急剛硬勁。活是圓活不滯,變化莫測。柔,是勁似抽絲,連綿不斷,外柔內剛或內柔外剛,剛柔相濟,不僵不拙,沾纏綿隨。靈,是轉動迅速,變化靈敏巧妙,進腿自如,吞吐隨身意。巧,是不丟不頂,不即不離,一羽不能加,蟲螥不能落,不動則已,動而成圓,因此內家拳中講,有"以一巧破千斤"之說。

Obvious force trains harmony to seek hardness; hidden force trains the gaining & relinquishing of purchase to seek pliancy & smoothly flowing with; transforming force trains agility to seek a clever & subtle skill.

"Harmony" means the breath, blood & solids in the upper & lower body as well as the inside & outside of one's body must all harmonize in unity; one must embody the concept of "a whole in proper order".

"Hardness" means that in the midst of the speed coming from an explosive emission, there must be firmness (the hardness that can be drawn upon in urgency is referred to as "true hardness"). The urgent violence found within hardness (also referred to as "true urgency") is the hard urgent force of the saying "firm as if pure ice".

"Lively" means to be round & lively without obstruction and to possess unfathomable changes.

"Pliancy/softness" means one's force is as if reeled silk, continuous & unbroken, soft on the outside & hard within or soft on the inside & hard without; hard & soft mutually assisting one another, neither stiff nor clumsy, sticking, binding, soft & following.

"Agility" means to turn and move at a rapid speed, with changes agile & nimble, skill clever & subtle, advancing one's legs in with a smooth ease, bringing one's strength inward & spitting it outward in accords with the intent of the body.

"Clever skill" means neither losing contact with the opponent nor resisting force-on-force; neither allowing them to be too close nor too far, such that not even a feather's weight can be added (without reaching excess), such that the contacting force would be insufficient to knock the shell of an insect to the ground; when the opponent's movement stops, so does one's own; when both are moving, one draws circular movements. Hence, with the internal arts it is said: "one uses skill to break one thousand pounds".


暗勁,顧名思議,是一種暗藏的勁,也是柔中含剛的韌勁。暗勁在內家拳中,主要是暗藏在丹田、腰、肩、肘之中。肩肘是上肢的根中枝節,根節中節為藏勁之所,變化之本,"中節空則節節空"(此話雖然指腰,然上肢不例外),所以練內家拳必注重鬆肩沈肘,沈中之靈為真靈,浮中之靈為飄靈,是不堪一擊的。因而在練習第一步暗勁功夫時,必須把勁真正集於肩肘之中。

"Hidden force", as its name implies, is a type of concealed force; it is also a tenacious force that is hard within its pliability.

Within the internal arts, "hidden force" is primarily concealed in the lower abdomen, the waist, the shoulders & the elbows. The shoulders & elbows are the joints that connect the rest of the arm with the root of the arm; these rooting joints are places where force is concealed and are the basis of change. It is said that "if the middle joint is empty, then all joints are empty"; while this was said referring to the waist, the upper limbs are no exception. Hence, practitioners of the internal arts must pay attention to relaxing the shoulders and dropping the elbows. The efficacy of a sunken middle joint is true efficacy, whereas the efficacy of a floating middle joint is itself floaty and unable to withstand a single blow. Therefore, the first step of training the development of a contained force requires one to genuinely accumulate force within the elbows & shoulders.


暗勁的鍛煉過程,是一個長內含重力,續發力(即二力)伸展之力的過程,暗勁在內家拳的運用中,主要是為了剋制對方和感覺對方的一動一靜,所以暗勁是在持法中常常使用的氣力勁。敵方之氣力勁發不出來,變化不動,腿不了,進不了。

Training hidden force is a process that develops heavy strength, continued strength (also known as "secondary strength") as well as a stretching/extending strength. In the usage of the internal martial arts, hidden force is primarily used to control the opponent and listen to the changes in his movement; hence, its circulation, strength & force are generally called upon in the methods of control. When the opponent cannot make use of his circulation, strength or force, he'll be unable to change his technique, unable to retreat, unable to advance.


化勁,是一種順從對方用來的氣力勁,往來的領化勁,它主要是鍛煉內勁的聽力,內氣力勁的轉變靈巧,在運用上它有不丟不頂,舍己從人,彼柔我剛,彼剛我柔,彼動我靜,彼來我先動。彼不知變化之巧妙為我用之,這在內家拳中也是易髓的過程。

Transforming force is a type of force that complies with the circulation, strength & force of the opponent so that one may lead him hither or thither. It is primarily the practice of listening to the opponent's strength with one's own internal force as well as the agility & changes of that internal circulation, strength & force [translator's understanding: "internal force" is force issued outward from the core of the body, a.k.a.: the "waist" in Chinese]. In usage, transforming force must not lose contact with the opponent nor meet force-on-force. One momentarily abandons one's own course and follows that of the opponent; if he is pliant, I am firm; if he is firm, I am pliant; if he enters into motion, I am still; when he initiates his attack, I strike first. While my opponent fails to understand the clever & subtle skills involved in changes, I am able to make use of them.


化勁在練功時,無論是進退起落,伸縮開闔,吞吐翻轉,其走步換勢都要取萬物之靈通之象形,輕靈敏捷,周身動轉要如同水之翻浪,連綿不斷,無疆無滯,無而不入,要體現出運動如流水,源源不竭,動轉曲曲順流,似球滾動,圓活無滯無疆拙的現象。

When training the development of transforming force, whether advancing, retreating, rising or falling, extending, contracting, opening or closing, taking in, sending out, turning over or around, the stepping & technique changes should be as fluent & mysterious as the processes of nature herself. Light, quick and agile, the entire body should move & turn as if swept by water, capsizing with its waves, continuous & unbroken, without stiffness nor obstruction, gaining entry from every point. The movements of the body should be as if flowing water, an endless & inexhaustible stream, winding & flowing with the current. As if a rolling sphere, the body's appearance should be round & lively without obstruction nor stiff clumsiness.


.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:25 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:10 pm

Here's a quick translation I've been meaning to do for a long time:

十三势行功心解 13 Powers (Shi)

武禹襄 by Wu Yuxiang attributed to Wang Zong-Yue

以心行气。务令沉着。乃能收敛入骨。以气运身。务令顺遂。乃能便利从心。

精神能提得起。则无迟重之虞。所谓顶头悬也。意气须换得灵。乃有圆活之趣。所谓变转虚实也。
[Jing is normally below our Shen but through cultivation and practice the Jing can control, or be above our Shen and control it's rising upward without getting away from our control. So...]
{Jingshen (Mental Drive or Mental Focus) can lift upward and rise. The body won't be too slow and heavy, nor too excited. It feel as if the crown of the head is hanging from a string. The 'Yi' and 'Qi' move about quickly. The body will be lively like a bouncing ball [like the ball used in 蹴鞠 cù​jū (ancient Chinese kickball/soccer)]. Yet able to change and turn in order to adapt to the true situation [unlike the ball that will just bounce carelessly].}

发劲须沉着松净。专主一方。立身须中正安舒。支撑八面,行气如九曲珠。
{Fajin (Issuing Force) must be stable yet moving, pliant yet crisp. It should be focused into a single direction. When standing the body must be kept 'Zhong Zheng' (Focused and Precise) [per all the IMA rules and requirements] in order to stay calm and adaptable [after 'Fa' issuing]. To brace /support outward in all eight directions there must be no place in the body that the Qi cannot reach to. [The giant pearl with nine bends going through the center of the pearl story]}

无往不利(气遍身躯之谓)。运劲如百炼钢。无坚不摧。形如搏兔之鹄。神如捕鼠之猫。静如山岳。动如江河。蓄劲如开弓。发劲如放箭。曲中求直。蓄而后发。力由脊发。步随身换。收即是放。断而复连。往复须有折迭。进退须有转换。极柔软。然后极坚刚。能呼吸。然后能灵活。气以直养而无害。劲以曲蓄而有余。心为令。气为旗。腰为纛。先求开展。后求紧凑。乃可臻于缜密矣。

{Not too much, not too little (Meaning Qi is everywhere in your body). Use your power as if it was steel folded a hundred times. Nothing will be as hard, nothing will break it. Your body should look like a Majestic Bird [Bald Eagle] seizing a rabbit. Your spirit should be like a cat capturing a mouse. Be motionless like a Tall mountain peak [where nothing lives]. Suddenly move with the relentless of power of a large river -like the Yangtze River. Store up power as if you were drawing open a bow. Emit power as if you were releasing the string of the bow. Within the 'Curve" of the bow is where you find the power to send the arrow 'Straight'. Storing then Emitting. Power is emitted by the spine. Changing that power is done through the stepping and rest of the body. But [unlike the bow and arrow that must be redrawn and another arrow notched] This Emission of power is gathering. The ending and beginning are continuously linked. Like a piston in a machine it can repeatedly produce power [storing is emitting, emitting is storing]. Entering and Leaving must use 'Zhuanhuan'. [The waist and torso] Must first be pliant and flexible, and then [after the 'Fa' (emission)] it can be solid and strong. Being able to breathe properly will allow you to be agile and lively 'Linghuo'. Allow the air to breathe out naturally and you will not suffer any harm. But this power should be like a singer singing a song, where you always need to keep air in your lungs so that even after singing your longest note you don't gasp for air. Your mind is the commander, your Qi is signaler, and your Waist [Dantian] is what moves your army [the rest of your body]. First work on expanding [all your movements] outward, and only later start bringing everything back in and seek to find perfection in your movements.}

又曰。彼不动。己不动。彼微动。己先动。劲似松非松。将展未展。劲断意不断。又曰。先在心。后在身。腹松气敛入骨。神舒体静。刻刻在心。切记一动无有不动。一静无有不静。牵动往来气贴背。而敛入脊骨。内固精神。外示安逸。迈步如猫行。运劲如抽丝。全身意在精神。不在气。在气则滞。有气者无力。无气者纯刚。气若车轮。腰如车轴。

{It's said that if your opponent is motionless then you remain motionless. When your opponent starts to move, your movement will arrive first. Your attack will appear to be relaxed but it won't be relaxed. It will seem to be overextended but it will not be overextended. The Power may stop but your 'Yi' will continue on. It's said first in the mind then in the body [which has a double meaning for both you and attacking the opponent]. Your guts should be kept relaxed so that your skeleton doesn't start being tense. Your spirit is comforted and your body is calm. This feeling should be ingrained into your mind. Be sure to remember: One part moves, then every part moves, one part stops then every part stops. Lead the movement of going out and coming back by having the Qi follow up and down your back and control it by linking the movement to your backbone. Inside your body your Mental Drive is hard and stern, but outside you only show ease and comfort. Approach the situation like a cat carefully hunting and sneaking up on it's prey. Continuously linking your movements as if you were pulling silk [and not starting and stopping or the thread would break]. Throughout your whole body your 'Yi' should be on your Mental Drive (Shen and Jing), not on your energy [or movement of Qi], as thinking about your Qi then the movement [attack or counterattack] will be too slow and you won't have [the ability to emit] power. And your movement [attack or counterattack] will only be hard as it will be without the natural movement of Qi. The Qi is like the Wheel, you only have to turn it's axle- the waist (Dantian) [and it will naturally follow].}


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Re: Dantian Power

Postby slowEdie on Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:47 pm

Beautiful....Thank You
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby LaoDan on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:49 pm

D_Glenn wrote:This is a translation of my Grand-teacher Xie Peiqi's writing...

On Different Types of Martial Force (Power) - Yin Style Baguazhang
Written by Doctor Xie Peiqi, (Translation by Eric C.)

[snip]
Regarding the question of angles, the turning of the body, the rise & fall of the hands and the rotation of the arms, all must form 45 degree angles or 90 degree angles (namely, one 45 degree angle joining another 45 degree angle).
[snip]

Thanks for the information! Could you elaborate on the 45 and 90 degree angles? Sam Chin in his ILiqChuan talks about 45 & 90 (and 2 45's making a 90), but I cannot tell from the brief mention here what your Grand-teacher is referring to and if it is similar to ILC.
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:47 pm

slowEdie wrote:Beautiful....Thank You

Thanks.

There are some key points hidden in that text.

Qi is like the Wheel but the waist is the axle.

So in CIMA text they often use the word 'waist' (Yao) to signify dantian, A) because it's a single syllable; B) there is an external/ exterior dantian and an internal/ interior dantian, and rather then always having to distinguish which one is being referred to they equate the word 'waist' (Yao) to the Exterior Dantian (Wai Dantian), and use the word 'Dantian' when referring to the Interior one.

Waist (Yao) also refers to both rotations of the Dantian, as 'Yao' is short for 'Yaobei' (Lumbar section of the spine), and the lumbar and tailbone rotate the Wai Dantian on it's 'Horizontal Middle Axle' (横向中轴 Hengxiang Zhong Zhou) aka 'Zhedie'; And turning the waist and spine side to side on it's vertical axle aka 'Zhuanhuan'. And it's these two wheels perpendicular to one another, but sharing the same center, that make the Exterior Dantian like a sphere shape.

Rotating and turning the wheels of our Dantian on these axis' is called 自轉力 Zizhuan Li (Self-Rotation Power) and it's a very small point in the center of what is a big circle (called 公转 Gongzhuan - Outside-Yourself Rotation) when it's expressed outward in the hand. This Self-Rotational Turning Power, when it's practiced slowly for a long time, becomes a Chan Si Jin (silk reeled power) but really you don't ever want to stop practicing your movements into the air (not against a partner or punching bag) as this thread of silk can eventually be turned into a Tanhuang Gangsi (Spring-steel Wire/ Piano wire), where it's like many piano wires bundled together for shipping.

Many, many thousands of people who are practicing CIMAs around the world have only found and developed the 自轉力 Zizhuan Li (Self-Rotation Power) of their vertical axle. (And it's been my goal (going on 15 years now) to get people to realize that there are actually TWO axles and TWO wheels. And it's extremely difficult to try to add the other wheel in at a later time as you have to do a lot of disassembling and re-training of ingrained movements, so it's crucial to learn to move these two different wheels from day one. I can't tell you the number of times I've had people say to me, "I'll worry about that movement later.", I just have to shake my head and walk away, thinking to myself "good luck with that.")

So, in CIMA there are these two wheels and two axles but these axles intersect/ join in a kind of universal joint. These axles can harmonize (move together like two people singing the same chorus in harmony) or they can move on their own (like the two singers can sing their lines of the song individually), it's all dependent upon the movement of your attack or counter attack but this gives us 3 different ways to move- Zhedie by itself, Zhuanhuan by itself, or Zhedie and Zhuanhuan moving in harmony.
These three movements are one very important part of the Six Harmonies (Liu He).

In the style of CIMA (Dr. Xie Peiqi's) that I practice the External Three Harmonies (Wai San He) are: 1- The Eyes and Mind-Spirit (xinshen) harmonize, 2- The 'yao' (waist / Dantian) and Body harmonize, 3- The Hand and foot harmonize.

So if you don't actually have the two movements of the waist/ Dantian then you don't really have the true harmony, or the real capacity for Harmony.

And the Internal Three Harmonies (Nei San He) are: 1- The 'Xing' (shape) and 'Yi' (intent) harmonize, 2- The 'Jing' (stillness) and 'Dong' (movement) harmonize, 3- The 'Qi' (energy) and 'Li' (power) harmonize.

Now to actually get Six Harmonies, the External and Internal Harmonies need to combine, 1 with 1, 2 with 2, 3 with 3. And that's where you get the other sayings like "One part moves every part Moves, one part stops every part stops", as the waist/ Exterior Dantian moves (Dong) then the whole body moves, the waist is still (Jing) then the whole body is still. You won't understand the need for having hand and foot harmony, unless you are using the movement of your tailbone and spine to Fa Li (Emit Power) and the Qi is following the movement of your spine and back and your "The 'Qi' (energy) and 'Li' (power) are harmonized.", etc. So many other sayings and songs are pulled out of these combinations of the External Three Harmonies with the Internal Three Harmonies.

So let's look at the Interior side of things- Qi can mean 'Air', as in the air being expelled from your lungs when you Fajin.

Or it can mean Yingqi, which is the Qi that is in our blood and circulatory system, like 'Sinking Qi to the [Interior] Dantian' is referring to the 'Yingqi' that is inside the Inferior Vena Cava, which can be kept dilated inside the Dantian, where if it's constricted then blood goes up into the cardiopulmonary system and can overwhelm the functioning of our lungs and our breathing starts to get shallow, and then we start to expel more air and oxygen, but are unable to get the air and oxygen back into our lungs.

Or it's that the Qi that is the Wheel, and is kind of another way to look at what's happening within our whole body. This is the Qi that's between the Jing and Shen. Jing is the willpower that is gathered up and held in the exterior Dantian, it's the vigor that drives the axles, it's the strength that supports the spokes of the wheel. Shen is our Xin and Yi, it's like the circuit board or microprocessor that is running everything. It gives the signal to turn the axle, this signaller is our 'Yi' (Intent). So, as it says in the text, don't think about the Qi that is between our Jing and Shen, we only need to think about our JingShen (Mental Drive, Mental Focus; or the Will that is driving our movements, and these movements are done under control of our mind (But this Mental Drive/ Focus shouldn't be shown on the outside, outside you should be cool and calm, like when you are playing Chess you can't let the other person see you thinking).
The actual movements of skeleton and muscle are being naturally fueled and energized under the autonomous movement of the Qi, via oxygen/air, molecules from our organs, and other nutrients already in the blood. There is a really fast sequential seismic-like wave of movement happening when one 'Fa'/ Emits Power, that, as the text says,will be naturally linked to the muscles and flesh of our whole back and the movement up and down is done/ linked with the movement of our spinal column.

Here's more about Jing, Qi and Shen. This is different then the texts that talk about cultivation and how Jing creates Qi, Qi converts into Shen.
In the above text and context we are referring to the Jing, Qi and Shen that's already within our body, and they're normal mental and physiological functions that one normally doesn't think about, but they're not really going to be noticeable things until you actually start to do some cultivation exercises, like Standing/ Zhan Zhuang.

If you have a fishing net this net is like our Qi, around the outside of that net you need weighted anchors, which are like our Jing, so that the cast net sinks down in the water, but anchors these need to be balanced by buoys/ Pieces of cork, which is like our Shen (Mind/ Spirit/ Soul), so that the net doesn't get tangled or caught on the bottom and so you know if it's cast out correctly as you can see the shape of the net by the buoys that are floating on the water. You can't see the fishing net (Qi) as it's under the water, so don't worry about it, the only thing you need to worry about is your JingShen/ Anchors and Buoys and the balance of these as Jing is heavy and Shen is light.

Here's a good text and translation that talks about JingShen but not in those words but in regards to balancing and always keeping the Qi Sunk (Chen) to the middle (Dantian):

Wuyizidi wrote:
Yuen-Ming wrote:"Zhong" (heavy) is associated with "qing" (light) while "chen" (sinking) is associated with "fu" (floating).
Here is the complete text for your reference:

太極輕重浮沉解

雙重為病,干於填寔,與沉不同也。
雙沉不為病,自爾騰虛,與重不易也。
雙浮為病,祗如漂渺,與輕不例也。
雙輕不為病,天然清靈,與浮不等也。
半輕半重不為病,偏輕偏重為病。
半者,半有落也,所以不為病。
偏者偏無著落也,所以為病。偏無著落,必失方圓。
半有著落豈出方圓,半浮半沉為病,失於不及也。偏浮偏沉,失於太過也。
半重偏滯而不正也。半輕偏靈而不圓也。
半沉偏沉,虛而不正也。半浮偏浮,茫而不圓也。
夫雙輕不近於浮,則為輕靈。雙沉不近於重,則為離虛。
故曰,上手輕重,半有著落,則為平手。除此三者之外,皆為病手。
蓋內之虛靈不昧,能致於外氣之清明,流行乎肢體也。
若不窮研輕重浮沉之手,徒勞掘井不及泉之歎耳然有方圓四正之手。
表裏精粗無不到,則已極大成。
又何云四隅出方圓矣。所謂方而圓,而方,超乎象外,得其寰中之上手也。

YM

Translation:
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:19 pm

LaoDan wrote:
D_Glenn wrote:This is a translation of my Grand-teacher Xie Peiqi's writing...
On Different Types of Martial Force (Power) - Yin Style Baguazhang
Written by Doctor Xie Peiqi, (Translation by Eric C.)

[snip]
Regarding the question of angles, the turning of the body, the rise & fall of the hands and the rotation of the arms, all must form 45 degree angles or 90 degree angles (namely, one 45 degree angle joining another 45 degree angle).
[snip]

Thanks for the information! Could you elaborate on the 45 and 90 degree angles? Sam Chin in his ILiqChuan talks about 45 & 90 (and 2 45's making a 90), but I cannot tell from the brief mention here what your Grand-teacher is referring to and if it is similar to ILC.
Dan

The main point about the angles is that 自轉力 Zizhuan Li (Self-Rotation Power) of the waist/ Dantian, described in my last post, around the Dantian is limited to 45 degrees to the side, you could then turn your hips another 45 degrees and you Dantian will be facing 90 degrees to the side. Circle turning and our Baguazhang Standing exercises need to be done and slowly, carefully and gradually, depending on one's natural level of flexibility, the ability to turn to 45 degrees will come about. So in the beginning this would realistically only be about 22.5 degrees that you are able to turn your waist/ dantian to the side. And then rotate your hips/ pelvis another 22.5 degrees.

The other important part is in that 13 Powers song/ text and the line where warning that you don't want to really have strength in your waist/ dantian until after the explosive (Bao Fali) movement goes away from the area of the waist/ dantian, and then it can be strong.

.
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby Pero on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:30 pm

D_Glenn wrote:This also gives us 籮筐 Luokuang (Wicker, Woven Basket), another name for an Exterior Dantian. It's in the Standing practices that the External Dantian (Waidan) is developed. This takes work and effort. Many countless people have attempted to skip the building of their Waidan and only seek to fill-up their Internal Dantian (Neidan). But this is a fruitless endeavor because, like a poorly constructed wicker basket, the Dantian just leaks, spilling out and Dispersing everything they're attempting to build up.

D_Glenn wrote:So in CIMA text they often use the word 'waist' (Yao) to signify dantian, A) because it's a single syllable; B) there is an external/ exterior dantian and an internal/ interior dantian, and rather then always having to distinguish which one is being referred to they equate the word 'waist' (Yao) to the Exterior Dantian (Wai Dantian), and use the word 'Dantian' when referring to the Interior one.

Could you please explain what the external and internal dantains are?
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:00 pm

Pero wrote:
D_Glenn wrote:This also gives us 籮筐 Luokuang (Wicker, Woven Basket), another name for an Exterior Dantian. It's in the Standing practices that the External Dantian (Waidan) is developed. This takes work and effort. Many countless people have attempted to skip the building of their Waidan and only seek to fill-up their Internal Dantian (Neidan). But this is a fruitless endeavor because, like a poorly constructed wicker basket, the Dantian just leaks, spilling out and Dispersing everything they're attempting to build up.

D_Glenn wrote:So in CIMA text they often use the word 'waist' (Yao) to signify dantian, A) because it's a single syllable; B) there is an external/ exterior dantian and an internal/ interior dantian, and rather then always having to distinguish which one is being referred to they equate the word 'waist' (Yao) to the Exterior Dantian (Wai Dantian), and use the word 'Dantian' when referring to the Interior one.

Could you please explain what the external and internal dantains are?

The Exterior Dantian is the Physical Sphere or Woven Basket that contains the Interior Dantian which is the qi and blood etc.

Think of the normal person just needs an exterior dantian or basket that just needs to hold large fruit and vegetables, like our internal organs, it doesn't need to be tightly woven to hold small grains, or even tighter to hold ground grains like flour or cornstarch, or a basket can be woven so tight that it's able to hold liquids.
So in CIMA and Daoist cultivation, one needs to really work on both, weaving the Exterior/ Physical Dantian tighter and tighter and filling it up with smaller and smaller grains and then mix the proverbial cornstarch with water and the Interior Dantian is then really dense and heavy, where a loosely woven Basket can only hold dried corn cobs, which is light and there's no real quantity.

Here's some stuff I wrote last year about Cultivating an Internal Dantian and Building the exterior:

In a healthy person qi is naturally rising like water evaporates. The Ren Meridian (Conception Vessel - CV) starts at CV1 (Huiyin) in the perineum and rises up the centerline on the front of the body.
The Du Meridian (Governing Vessel - GV) starts at GV 1 (between the anus and tailbone) and rises up the center of the back, around the head, and down the face where it meets the Ren meridian.

Touching the tongue to the soft palate connects the Ren and Du; Hollowing the chest and tucking the tailbone under and deep breathing into the abdomen begins to reverse the flow of qi in the Ren Meridian and starts a circuit of qi flowing up the back and down the front of the body, this is called the 'Xiao Zhou Tian' (Small Heavenly Orbit/ Microcosmic Orbit). This is where you don't really want to put your mind on 'Qihai point' (CV6), because qi is already there, instead think about bringing it a little lower to CV4 (Guan Yuan Origin Pass) where it can enter inside and go straight to the area called 'Duhu' (Earth Door) which is above CV1 and GV1 and then continue along the circuit up the back, etc.

This is where it's really important to strongly clench up the pelvic basin which is the perineum, anus, and that whole lower area, because flowing the Ren Meridian in reverse can end up causing a collapse of qi that could, over time, result in a groin hernia, or other potentially worse situation. It may not happen during the time of practice but could cause a weakening of the meridians and fascia that are working to prevent a hernia from occuring. You may not be doing anything strenuous when circulating the superficial Microcosmic orbit, but later when moving some furniture is when the hernia may happen.

------------

If you look at what is ideally happening from some basic Western terminology viewpoint, it may help to provide some motivation to practice-

☱ Dui Trigram Swamp - The Break at the Top needs to be closed - so the tongue is pressed up against the roof of the mouth - connecting the Ren and Du meridians.

☲ Li Trigram Flame - The Break in the Middle needs to be closed - so the chest is concaved/ hollowed (pericardium relaxed).

☴ Xun Trigram Wind - The Break at the Bottom needs to be closed - so the tailbone/ coccyx is tucked under and 會陰 Huiyin point is held taught and contracting upward.

Combine these with deep, slow abdominal breathing and what physically happens is that the kidneys are relaxed and the Qi (normally above in the middle dantian) sinks down into the relaxed lower dantian, which can be likened to more blood draining down the Abdominal Aorta and possibly more blood being kept in a then dilated Inferior Vena Cava (of course we're not talking stopping the flow of blood!). This can be beneficial for the Kidneys which in turn may boost their production of the hormone called Erythropoietin (EPO aka hematopoietin). This hormone is mostly known for signalling the bone marrow to produce more red blood cells, but the benefits we're looking for is more from it's other non-blood promoting effects in the body- Angiogenesis is the physiological process through which new blood vessels form from pre-existing vessels; and inducing proliferation of smooth muscle fibers [Smooth muscle is found within the walls of blood vessels (such smooth muscle specifically being termed vascular smooth muscle) such as in the tunica media layer of large (aorta) and small arteries, arterioles and veins. Smooth muscle is also found in lymphatic vessels, the urinary bladder, uterus (termed uterine smooth muscle), male and female reproductive tracts, gastrointestinal tract, respiratory tract, erector pili of skin, the ciliary muscle, and iris of the eye. The structure and function is basically the same in smooth muscle cells in different organs, but the inducing stimuli differ substantially, in order to perform individual effects in the body at individual times. In addition, the glomeruli of the kidneys contain smooth muscle-like cells called mesangial cells. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth_muscle_tissue]
This will likely, at first, be used to naturally promote the health of blood flow going to organs and strengthen other vital blood vessels and functions, but with use of our 'Intent' we can begin to promote the growth and unblocking of capillaries and micro-capillaries that go to the muscles, ligaments, and tendons of our extremities by looking at our hands, and then further increase the blood and flow of fluids that provide nourishment to our skin (improving the health and natural functioning of our Wei Qi (Defensive/ Guardian Qi).

So think about promoting a basic health of the body's major organs, then focus on promoting your body's capacity to contain Yuan and Ying Qi and Blood (whole body becoming an Internal Dantian/ Vessel/ Container), and when that's built up, after a couple years or so, the Exterior of your body, being nourished by a better supply of Ying Qi has a greater and faster capacity to protect itself with it's Wei Qi, and this is another aspect to having a 'Peng' quality to your body, as the Weiqi is a Sub-Consciously controlled by our 'Po'.
--------------------

Now, for the new stuff- So the idea is to create a hollow, relaxed place inside the abdomen, which is what you want to become the sphere of your Dantian. This sphere is supported underneath by the lifting upward of the area around CV1 (huiyin point) and GV1. The deep breathing and pressing down of the diaphragm supports the top. If you only press from the top and bottom then the sphere will then just squeeze sideways out the front, back, or sides, (kind of like a ball of dough being pressed flat), which if the pressing breathing into the abdomen is taken to excess it could become an abdominal hernia. But you obviously don't want to even go there, or reach that point, so it's important to have a hollow, empty feeling inside the dantian, but it's even more important to have it wrapped back in and contained from the outside. This is the Dai Mai (belt meridian), also called the girdle meridian, and like a girdle it something that's synched up tight, like a weightlifting belt. But Dai or CheDai (vehical tire/ wheel) also goes back to the days of the wagon wheel where you have the hub (true dantian) but then spokes coming off the hub in 360 degrees of direction to form a circle, the outside of the spokes are held equal distance apart from one another by the holes in the outer circle of curved wooden parts but what really makes it functional is the steel belt (Dai) that is then heated and bent all the way around the outside of the wheel and nailed in place once it's wrapped around the full circle. When the steel cools down it shrinks and you have a complete and functional wheel.

In our body this wheel is like our Dantian, but it's not fixed to a straight axle but more like a universal joint where it's fixed but it can be tilted in any direction. The steel band should be solid, but like the wagon wheel the strength is eventually a passive strength, as it's inherent in the parts of the wheel, if any part of that steel band gets bent or comes loose, then the spokes inside can become easily damaged. Think of the vital insides of your Dantian are what you want to protect, the organs are the spokes, the Inferior (lower) Vena Cana and Abdominal Aorta are the Hub. But first you have to manufacture the strength of this area, it doesn't come naturally, it takes time and work (Dantian Gong) as it's like the blacksmiths who first have to forge the steel get into a shape of a strap and then later this 'hot rolled' strap will be heated up enough where it's workable but not too hot where it just burns or catches the wood of the wheel on fire. After the labor of getting the strap around the wood it's then hammered into a 'U' shape to protect a bit of the sides, then it's finally quenched in water to become a 'cold' piece of steel. So this isn't something that can be ignored, after you've built your Dantian you don't have to think about but should always keep it in check or maintain it.

If you are a CHinese Internal Martial Artist and you don't have a solid Dantian, then what kind of martial artist are you? ???

If you just consider yourself to be a Daoist Cultivation and Meditation Practitioner but you don't have a solid Dantian , then what kind of Daoist are you? ???


Either way you can't ignore that these are physical first, then comes energy, then comes spirit. These foundational steps can't be skipped over no matter what your end goal is for taking on and actually doing these cultivation exercises.

Someone can interpret the texts and traditions we now have, in any manner or however they want. They can make their practices into the laziest, complacent (松懈 Songxie) exercises that they can possibly be, but don't forget that the reason we even have these traditions passed down is because of great people in the past who were anything but lazy.

Just think about how difficult it is to write a book now a days, you have the word processor, resources at the touch of a button, etc. and it still takes vast amount of knowledge, time, and dedication to see it to it's end. The people in the past, not only dedicated their lives to their practices and the gaining of knowledge, some lived as homeless beggars most of their lives and struggled to even find food and water, but later when their skills were recognized then they also found a way to hand write books, with pen and paper, in Chinese characters, and pass their knowledge onto the next generation.


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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:34 am

So, above I mentioned the Six Harmonies (六合 Liuhe), which is really one word, which means all six directions- up down east west north south, basically everything under the sun , which in the confines of our own body is- inside outside left right front and back, basically our whole body. So when everything in our body is working together it's Harmonized (六合作 Liu Hezuo) which is the 外三合作 Wai San Hezuo (Outside/ Exterior Three Harmonies) and the 内三合作 Nei San Hezuo (Inside/ Interior Three Harmonies).

So let's look at 開/开 Kai (Opening) and 合 He (Closing). Where Closing is actually the word 閉合 Bihe but the same character 合, only now with a different meaning.

So the 自轉 Zizhuan (Self-Rotation) of our Dantian, around it's Horizontal Axle/ Axis, can be in the Open (開 Kai) by pulling the Tailbone and GV1 (長強 Changqiang point) towards your back; or it can be in the Closed position (閉合 Bihe) by tucking the Tailbone and 長強 Changqiang point under and towards your front.

This angle of rotation in this movement is roughly <90 degrees. But we only really want to be using a <45 degree portion of this rotation when Emitting Power (FaLi/ Fajin), as you don't want to be 'Fully open or fully Closed', as after the Emission of force, you want to have room to Close down a little bit more.

So to Emit (發 'Fa') we Close (閉合 Bihe). This Closing Movement is also called 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Crashing/ Surgin Wave Power), which is also called 吐 Tu (to throw out).

To Store (蓄 'Xu') we Open (開 Kai) and pulling GV1 (長強 Changqiang point) back, naturally brings Qi back to the Dantian, which is also called 納 Na (Receiving).

In advanced stages of practice of Taijiquan and Baguazhang (and in the beginning of the martial art of Xinyiliuhe or XYLH), the Opening (開 Kai) movement of the Tailbone is done quickly and used to attack. This Opening Movement is also called 翻浪勁 'Fan lang Jin' (Overturning/ Retreating Wave Power), but it's not really an Emission (發 'Fa') but more like a Forceful Storing or a rapid Drawing back-in of Qi.


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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:02 am

Four Poems on Silk Reeling Method of Taijiquan ~ http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/taiji/chenxin.html

SEVEN-CHARACTERS ANCIENT POEM (e.g. poem with seven characters to a line)

In movement Yang is born, stillness is in Yin, movement and stillness combined are the root.

Without doubt you will find joy inside roundness, and see the Truth of Heaven through turns and circular movements performed at will.

SECOND

Yin and Yang have no beginning nor end, creation resides in coming and going, bending (Qu) and extending (Shen).

Consider thoroughly this information, move the Vital Principle in round turns performed without restraint.

THIRD

At times it is clear at times it is not, closing (He), opening (Pi), staying at one place (Lai), tearing (Si), lifting (Ti) are linked;

Many moments of ignorance have to pass before the Principle will become clear, but with sudden inspiration it becomes (clear like) a glass.

披 Pi is another word for Opening, but this is more about unrolling a scroll, or spreading a scroll across a table, and the opposite movement is 卷 Juan, which is Rolling up, or how the Scroll naturally wants to roll and curl itself back up. Which is how eventually you want your Closing (He) movement to be like. Where it's so ingrained that you have to hold it back, which takes TIME and lots of practice (Gong Fu) but under skilled trainers, as described in the fourth Poem:

FIVE-CHARACTERS ANCIENT POEM (e.g. with five characters to a line)

The Principle is without boundaries, but its sources are (even) in (little) ants.

Do not peep at the garden for three years, have one will and focused spirit.

It is necessary to study from a good teacher, and also visit wise friends.

Follow the rules in all respects, and a narrow beam of understanding will appear.

Next level is deeper than the previous one, the meaning within the levels is without boundaries.

Opening (Kai) is linked to Closing (He), Openings (Kai) and Closings (He) pass on from one to another in order.

Sometimes one is guided into victory, and cannot stop practicing even though one wants to.

Time, study and efforts to the utmost, and your skill will grow every day.

If only there is no obstacle, you will suddenly understand Great Void.
"Excerpts from 'Illustrated Explanation of Chen Family Taijiquan' by Chen Xin"; © J.Szymanski 1999

And, as I wrote earlier, the 3rd) Skill of being able to Emit Power (發 'Fa' Jin) is a type of, and relies upon the 2nd) Skill of Silk-Reeling Power (Chan Si Jin).
If you look at any type of braided strands like any size steel cable (Tanhuang Chansi Spring-Steel Coiled Thread), like a guitar string or the steel cable of a crane, you pluck one end of the guitar string or strike one end of the cable with a sledgehammer, the wave of force/ soundtravels through the string. Our bodies are like this, say one end of the cable is connected to your core and the other end is connected to your finger tips or fist, which is a short power inside a long (cun li inside chi li); or you can figuratively clamp down the other end of the cable at your shoulder and the 發 'Fa' will Exit your body there (cun li inside a cun li).

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Re: Dantian Power

Postby dspyrido on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:08 pm

D_Glenn wrote:So, above I mentioned the Six Harmonies (六合 Liuhe), which is really one word, which means all six directions- up down east west north south, basically everything under the sun , which in the confines of our own body is- inside outside left right front and back, basically our whole body. So when everything in our body is working together it's Harmonized (六合作 Liu Hezuo) which is the 外三合作 Wai San Hezuo (Outside/ Exterior Three Harmonies) and the 内三合作 Nei San Hezuo (Inside/ Interior Three Harmonies).


Doesn't 6 harmonies just mean 6 harmonies which is usually reference to the 3 internal and 3 external harmonies only?

The 6 directions are 6 directions which is another (related) principle that is classed under the 6 body methods (and really is about not leaning).
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby dspyrido on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:50 pm

I read texts about dantien a few decades ago and came out scratching my head and wondering - what they hell are these guys talking about?

So after a few decades of training this under someone who brought sanity to it I thought I would provide what has worked for me. YMMV and I am sure there are many roads to what is wrong and right but here are my thoughts.

You don't start on dantien - it takes a long time to be aware of the region and to know how to use it. Plus many people never even come close to awareness of how to apply it let alone power it up and waste a lot of time seeking it without the right foundation.

In the very beginning you start with:

- 4 directions (don't lean)
- As you practice you learn the 3 external harmonies (hand-foot, elbow-knee, hip-shoulder)
- Do this for a year and you can also develop the other 2 directions - the structure sinks while the legs do lower basin work and the spine extends, chin tucks in producing the lifting feeling for the upward direction. Peculiarities like the tongue are a mater of opinion and my view is they relate to energetic aspects (see below).
- You also evolve the shoulders down, elbows down etc.

As you progress you build balance, strength and connectivity. A test for whether this is working is holding santi and getting someone to push the extended hand. If you ground without effort you got it.

At some point (and it is not a switch but a gradual tweak) you can start to bring in the other bows of the shoulders, back and coccyx in line. This takes a few more years but is the first step in the development of the lower dantien.

Then you can move to the dynamic tension work found in the exercises in the region to extend, attune and link. In all the imas this is practiced in the same forms and is just done with awareness of this aspect of training.

Then it takes a twist. Literally. The hips go forward and the shoulders twist even more. The legs naturally form a triangular structure. (thanks goes to my mate alex for spotting the tweak). You also really need to compress the gut in, lift the butt and stretch the spine. The dynamic tension is vital for building connectivity and strength.

With time the dynamic tension produces a stronger structure. If you are getting this working then the pressure test can be applied in santi but this time by pushing the extended arm at the wrist in the 4 directions and not towards the body. If you can hold your structure you are getting a dantien connection going.

Then you can start to really build the power using pressure via other humans and weighted practice. At this stage the upper basic work and linking the whole are

As for energetic stuff-

Many of the texts on dantien discuss chi, elixir fields and so on. I see this is only a distraction in the earlier stages with many people self deluding themselves into feeling the glow. It takes years to develop the connectivity but when you get it - it is testable and really useful in combat. The energetic aspects naturally develop and evolve.

Once you have got a good linkage with the dantien going then at this point you can read on the chi concepts and such to gain insight into what chinese scholars viewed was going on in the body. At that point items being written on energetic aspects are far more easier to relate to and understand.

Again YMMV but this path, although taking years to develop has worked nicely for me and continues to provide new and interesting insights.
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:09 pm

dspyrido wrote:
D_Glenn wrote:So, above I mentioned the Six Harmonies (六合 Liuhe), which is really one word, which means all six directions- up down east west north south, basically everything under the sun , which in the confines of our own body is- inside outside left right front and back, basically our whole body. So when everything in our body is working together it's Harmonized (六合作 Liu Hezuo) which is the 外三合作 Wai San Hezuo (Outside/ Exterior Three Harmonies) and the 内三合作 Nei San Hezuo (Inside/ Interior Three Harmonies).


Doesn't 6 harmonies just mean 6 harmonies which is usually reference to the 3 internal and 3 external harmonies only?

Yep. That's what I wrote. In general usage '六合 Liuhe' is a single word that means "Everything under the sun" as you can look in all directions, up at the sky, and down at the ground and is basically everything you can behold. The word was adapted and applied to CMA where it means 'Everything within our body' and, as I wrote, it is the 外三合作 Wai San Hezuo (Outside/ Exterior Three Harmonies) and the 内三合作 Nei San Hezuo (Inside/ Interior Three Harmonies).

dspyrido wrote:The 6 directions are 6 directions which is another (related) principle that is classed under the 6 body methods (and really is about not leaning).

That's the 六方 Liu Fang (Six Directions).

The 六方 Liu Fang (Six Directions) are another good principle to develop the 'Peng' quality of the body and build up the Exterior Dantian as you want to be expanding outward from the inside in all directions, like spokes of a wheel, while the surfaces (Mian) are contracting back inwards (Using "Integration Force/ He Jin"), or rather, the Belt/ Wheel (Dai) is wanting to tightly wrap back-in against the proverbial spokes. But this is generally distinguished, by where the whole body is expanding in 六方 Liu Fang (Six Directions); while the Dantian is expanding in 八方 Ba Fang (Eight Directions). And we have another different word using the character 合 He- Using "Integration Force" 結合 Jiehe Jin (Knot, Tie, Integrate or Binding Force), and is what he just shortens to "He Jin" in the article below.

But it's not really about "not leaning", it does, in a sense, require 不偏不倚 Bù​piān​bù​yǐ, but it's also a single word, although it's often been mis-translated as 4 individual words- 'Don't slant, don't lean'. But it's kind of an idiom that basically means to be impartial and don't favor one part of your body over the other.

Here's a good post about the 方 Liu Fang (Six Directions) and at first, as he explains, we have to be partial and focus on one direction, but with practice we can be impartial and exact while focusing on all Six directions:

AllanF wrote:Just wondering how people train this expanding energy?
Personally i do it via Zhan Zhuang, xingyi's santi posture. A great explanation of this vital training comes from Lu Shengli a student of Wang Peisheng, courtesy of Zhang Yun's website: http://www.ycgf.org/Articles/XY_SanTiSh ... TiShi.html

Six-direction Force

"When you have developed the physical ability to hold the Santi Shi posture correctly, you should begin to train your mind in more detail. Although your body will appear to an outside observer to be motionless during Santi standing, many changes and feelings of movement will be occurring inside your body. It is said of this state that “Outside there is stillness but inside there is movement.”

Typically, six-direction practice is the first step in training your mind during Santi standing. It provides a simple way to focus your mind so that your mind can lead your qi and your internal force. Diligent practice of the six-direction force will stabilize and coordinate all aspects of your external posture. It will also integrate your internal force and develop an internal state of comfort and clarity.

The six-direction force practice is of central importance for the development of jin. In this practice, internal force is developed simultaneously in six directions: forward; backward; leftward; rightward; upward and downward. Often, training in Santi Shi emphasizes force primarily in one direction, but unless one develops the ability to support or express force in all directions, it will be difficult to change and maintain balance during movement, especially when fighting.

Internal force should be expressed in all directions, but for convenience of training, only six directions are delineated. If you can express force in these six basic directions, you can quite easily expand your skill to the release of internal force in all directions. Internal force should follow the flow of qi and fill your body as air fills a ball. When inflated by air, a ball becomes springy and strong, and equal pressure is exerted at every point on its surface. Internal force should similarly affect your body.

The following instructions for six-direction force practice assume that you are in the left Santi Shi posture, that is, your left hand and left foot are in front. Each direction force is described individually.

Upward Force: Focus your mind on Baihui, the acupuncture point at the top of your head. Imagine that it is pushing upward. Imagine, too, that your feet are being inserted into the ground. This will create a reverse direction force that will push your body up. The greater your feeling of your feet’s being inserted into the ground, the more upward power you will feel. Be careful that the force is directed straight upward. It is important that your body always be upright, especially your neck and head.

Downward Force: Focus your mind on the Dantian in the center of your lower abdomen. Think about relaxing every part of your body and about your qi sinking down to the Dantian. This will cause your body to feel heavy and drop slightly. Imagine also that your legs are pushing down into the ground.

Forward Force: Focus your mind on the Laogong point in the center of your left palm and feel as though your left palm were pushing forward. Feel power coming up from your back foot. Your right rear foot should press down into the ground, and power should feel as though it were flowing up through your right leg to your waist, then through your back, your left arm, and finally out through your left palm. You should feel a forward-pushing force from your back foot, in this case your right foot, all the way up to your front or left hand. At the same time, imagine that your right shoulder is chasing your left hand.

Backward Force: Focus your mind on the Jiaji point in the center of your back and imagine that it is pushing backward. This feeling is often characterized as “leaning on the mountain.” Imagine that your left foot is pressing down into the ground. This will create a feeling that your torso is pushing toward your back. At the same time, imagine that your right hand is pulling something back and then coordinate this feeling with the downward force in your left foot. The integration of the feeling in your right hand with the downward press of your left foot will augment the backward force.

Leftward Force: Focus your mind on the Shangyang point in your right index finger and imagine pointing with this finger to the left side of your body. This will enhance the integration of your right arm and left leg and will create a feeling that your body is twisting to the left. The sense of twisting will generate a feeling of power rotating to the left inside your body.

Rightward Force: Focus your mind on the Shaoshang point in your left thumb and imagine your thumb twisting to the right. This will enhance the integration of your left arm and right leg and create a feeling that your body is twisting to the right. This twisting feeling will generate a force that seems to rotate to the right inside your body.

In the beginning of your practice, you should concentrate on only one of the six directions of force. When you feel comfortable with one direction, proceed to work on the next one. Remember that this training involves using only your mind to lead your practice and to create internal feelings. There is no overt physical movement. Sometimes, a strong, clear feeling inside your body may cause some slight movement. You should neither seek to increase such a feeling nor struggle to stop the involuntary movement. Just maintain a relaxed state and continue with your six-direction training.

When you can practice each direction of force separately with confidence, you can practice pairs of force. First, practice upward and downward forces together; then forward and backward forces and finally leftward and rightward forces. This gradual process is recommended because most practitioners find it difficult to focus on more than one point or direction at a time. When practicing pairs, concentrate on each side of the paired force directions. Initially, change your mental focus slowly and with clear intent from one force in the pair to the other. Eventually, you will be able quickly to switch your mental focus back and forth between the two different directions. Eventually it will come to seem as though you are focusing on the two directions simultaneously. When you can do this routinely, your mind will generate a powerful, clear feeling.

Acquiring this ability takes a great deal of practice, so be patient. With sustained practice over a long period of time, focusing your mind on a pair of directions will seem almost effortless. Then, you can extend your practice to include all three-paired force directions. The goal of such training is to increase your ability to generate or withstand power from any direction instantaneously and without conscious thought.

Integration Force

Basically, the six-direction force is an expanding force. He jin or integration force is the other important force that can be cultivated in Santi Shi. It balances your energy, makes you more stable and allows your internal components to be comfortably coordinated. Integration force can also increase your internal power. As with six-direction force, integration force concerns mental intention and physical awareness but does not involve overt physical movement.

Integration force in your arms works to coordinate the use of both arms so that they can work harmoniously together as one. Integration force flows from your back to your arms and hands. To feel this force, first imagine strongly pushing your front hand forward. At the same time, imagine pulling your rear hand backward as though trying to tear a stiff and resistant piece of paper in half. Next, imagine pulling your front hand back and pushing your rear hand forward as though trying to put two heavy things together. Remember that all these “actions” should occur only in your mind. The images should not be accompanied by overt physical movement or by isometric tensing of your muscles.

Integration force in your legs is also a coordinating force. It can help develop rooting. To practice leg integration force, first imagine that your body is sinking down. This will create a feeling that your feet are being inserted deeply into the ground. Your front foot should slant down and forward, and your rear foot should slant down and backward. Next, imagine that you are standing on an icy surface. The surface is so slippery that your feet feel as though they are about to slide apart. Imagine that your front foot is sliding forward and your rear foot is slipping backward. In order to maintain your balance and avoid falling down, you will feel as though you need to use force to bring your feet together. Once again, all of this occurs only in your mind. There should be no overt physical movement and no isometric tensing of your muscles.

Integration force in your arms and legs results in the coordination of your upper and lower body. A simple way to practice integration force is to use three specific points on your arm and a corresponding set of three points on your opposite leg. The three points on your arm are: the Jianjing point on your shoulder; the Quchi point on your elbow; and the Lao Gong point on your hand. The three coordinating points on your opposite-side leg are: the Huantiao point on your hip; the Yanglingquan point on your knee; and the Yongquan point on your foot.

The first step in integration force training is to mentally connect one arm with the leg on the opposite side of your body. Focus first on the Laogong point of your left hand and then expand this thought to the Yongquan point on your right foot. Then, focus your mind on the Quchi point on your left elbow and connect that thought to the Yanglingquan point on your right knee. Next, focus your mind on the Jianjing point on your left shoulder and make a connection in your mind to the Huantiao point on your right hip.

Then, shift your mental focus to the other Jianjing point, that is, the Jianjing point on your right shoulder and connect it to the Huantiao point on your left hip. Continue by focusing next on the Quchi point on your right elbow and connect it to the Yanglingquan point on your left knee. Complete this part of your practice by focusing on the Lao Gong point on your right hand and connecting it to the Yongquan point on your left foot. Repeat these six steps until all the connections feel natural.

In the second part of integration force practice, you should try to coordinate the feelings in both arms with the feelings in both legs, at each of the three sets of points. This integration training is commonly called bao or “holding and embracing.” In bao practice, you should focus your mind first on both left and right Laogong points and then connect the feelings at these points to those at your right and left Yongquan points. Then, mentally focus on both left and right Quchi points and make connections to your right and left Yang Ling Quan points. Thirdly, focus on both left and right Jianjing points and connect them to your right and left Huantiao points. Next, focus on your right and left Jianjing points and connect them to your left and right Huantiao points. The fifth step is to focus on your right and left Quchi points and connect them to your left and right Yanglingquan points, and the sixth step is to focus on both right and left Laogong points and connect them to your left and right Yongquan points. Repeat these steps until the paired connections feel natural at each set of points.

Integration force practice will strengthen your qi, increase your mental control and concentrate your shen. The physical training of movement in your arms and legs will gradually cause internal changes. This is what is meant by the traditional adage that “outside training leads to inside training.” As training improves sufficiently, the internal and external can be integrated. At this point, you can reduce your concentration on external movement and focus more on training the internal components. Gradually, your internal feelings will grow stronger, and any internal change will automatically cause an external change. At high levels of mastery, it is possible to focus exclusively on shen because everything else, that is, mind (yi), qi, jin and physical movements, will follow naturally. With this ability, you will have fully achieved the integration force."


In an interesting comparison i noticed that in aikido they had a clue to this from the old boy (O'Sensei) via Kamae standing. When he said "Quote from Gozo Shioda:
Originally, there was no position in aikido that might have been called a "basic stance." The founder, while saying that the basic stance was "to open your feet o the six directions, N, S, E, W, Up and Down" also wrote, "The complete kamae is what arises from where the gods lead you, depending on time, situation, the lie of the land, the spirit of the moment - kamae is what is in your heart" (from Budo).

He also said:
Through training in kamae, we learn to maintain a straight balance, keep our hands, feet and hips on a center line of the body, maintain correct posture without having to make an effort and extend our spirit forward. In Yoshinkan, in order to learn the stance that is necessary to develop breath power, we introduce kamae as the most "BASIC" part of our training.

---From Total Aikido"
Last edited by D_Glenn on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Dantian Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:15 pm

dspyrido wrote:[snip]...It takes years to develop the connectivity but when you get it - it is testable and really useful in combat. The energetic aspects naturally develop and evolve.

Once you have got a good linkage with the dantien going then at this point you can read on the chi concepts and such to gain insight into what chinese scholars viewed was going on in the body. At that point items being written on energetic aspects are far more easier to relate to and understand.

Again YMMV but this path, although taking years to develop has worked nicely for me and continues to provide new and interesting insights.

It does take time and practice.

"Do not peep at the garden for three years"

Is a reference to gardening and proper cultivation of the soil in the field (田 Tian).


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Re: Dantian Power

Postby Pero on Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:50 pm

D_Glenn wrote:The Exterior Dantian is the Physical Sphere or Woven Basket that contains the Interior Dantian which is the qi and blood etc.
...

Thanks D_Glenn!

But Dai or CheDai (vehical tire/ wheel) also goes back to the days of the wagon wheel where you have the hub (true dantian)

Could you explain true and false dantian too?

If you are a CHinese Internal Martial Artist and you don't have a solid Dantian, then what kind of martial artist are you? ???

If you just consider yourself to be a Daoist Cultivation and Meditation Practitioner but you don't have a solid Dantian , then what kind of Daoist are you? ???

This was something I've been thinking of opening a new thread for but since you mentioned it yourself... :)
So, a Daoist meditation practitioner develops or should develop the same two dantians as an internal martial artist? I've been wondering about this since I've first seen it mentioned that a dantian in MA is a physical thing. Because in the books on Daoist meditation that I've read I don't recall ever seeing the dantian(s) being explained this way.

Also, here we're talking about the lower dantian.. Are the other two different? Or do you build an outer and inner DT as well?
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