Imperial Yang?

[Bhassler]

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24300/68299/?ba=DoubleSimcoe

[neijia_boxer]

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24300/68299/?ba=DoubleSimcoe

Excellent- redefining "beer muscles" into "Beer fajin"

[TaiChiTJ]

I have been mulling over the presentation of Yang Jian Hou's ( "Imperial" ) Tai Chi for a few years now. This has included the purchase from Jarek's site, of Chinese language material authored by Wei Shu Ren and a book from Plum Publications, in Chinese, also written by the late Wei Shu Ren. That presentaion of this body of knowledge to the world was originally by Wei Shu Ren, of course, and then Sifu John Fung and also Sifu Richard Wong. In recent years Sifu Cezary Kwiatkowski has placed several video clips on YouTube for us all to see.

It seems to be very much a metaphysical body of knowledge. This, of course, can be problematic if our comfort zone with the art mostly starts with the physical and internal energy concepts are relegated to a separate chi kung practice.

And I have learned from this site we now have this practice planted in the U.S., with two enthusiastic Tai Chi adepts asking for financial assistance for their upcoming trip to China to study with Wei Shu Ren's oldest daughter.

We also have the clip referred to on this thread of Sifu Fung attempting to make his understanding of these metaphysical energy principles serve him well in a friendly push hands session with Stuart Shaw.

There are many concepts and principles and energy visualization methods in this body of knowledge and I certainly don't claim to fully understand much of it.

One principle, explained here by Sifu Fung, concerns being aware of the opponents back while interacting with arm, hand and wrist contact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg

anyone try this? I am just beginning to work with it and would appreciate hearing from anyone who has played with it

[shawnsegler]

There are many concepts and principles and energy visualization methods in this body of knowledge and I certainly don't claim to fully understand much of it.

Of course you don't.

Good luck with that.

S

[Bao]

We also have the clip referred to on this thread of Sifu Fung attempting to make his understanding of these metaphysical energy principles serve him well in a friendly push hands session with Stuart Shaw.

There are many concepts and principles and energy visualization methods in this body of knowledge and I certainly don't claim to fully understand much of it.

"Metaphysical" explanations are only good if you already understand it in practice. I don't like complicated intellectual explanations. When you DO something correctly, it never feels complicated.

One principle, explained here by Sifu Fung, concerns being aware of the opponents back while interacting with arm, hand and wrist contact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg
anyone try this? I am just beginning to work with it and would appreciate hearing from anyone who has played with it

I prefer to connect directly to the foot. It's the root you want to get, not the back.

Think about the body as a kite shaped figure.



The head is the upper point. From the head to the shoulders you can form a triangle. If you split it through the middle line you get two triangles. Head - shoulder - dan tian also form a cross. The middle/intersection of the cross is the point of the back that Mr Fung speaks about. But actually, you can connect with any of these points on the kite. If you connect through one of these points of the "kite" and at the same time with the foot, you have another triangle shape through your connection with your opponent's arm, the point of the "kite" and the foot. If you stabilize the angles when you move together with the distance to your partner, you can use your angles and movement to dominate his movement. ...
... [rambling and over-analyzing]IME, it's very important to always consider this attachment and positioning to the opponent. From this perspective, I see what Mr Fung does here quite one-dimensional. He cares about the connecting point, but his body, the agles and distance to the opponent, is not fixated to his opponent's. He only care about the moment when he can connect to his opponent's back through the connection of the limbs. This would make him quite vulnarable if he would meet a not so cooporative partner .... which he did ... [/rambling and over-analyzing]

[shawnsegler]

"Metaphysical" explanations are only good if you already understand it in practice. I don't like complicated intellectual explanations. When you DO something correctly, it never feels complicated.

Well put.

S

[windwalker]

I've had correspondence with Jhon Fung, over the yrs
He is quite easy to contact and will respond.

As he mentioned this was something that he was working on a while back, some of his views have changed since this time.
As far as "metaphysical"

The word "metaphysics" derives from the Greek words μετά (metá, "beyond", "upon" or "after") and φυσικά (physiká, "physics")

Even if what is shown using physics to explain it.
It has been many times over, most dont seem to be able to follow it.

What is called beyond may in truth only be beyond ones own understanding / experience
no matter what is used to explain it.

[windwalker]

The explanations given can be thought of as levels.

With all being correct according to the level they address but may not
help in understanding some of what are called higher levels.

Just as one only having a basic physics understanding would not be able to really grasp phd level physics.
Whether this understanding is beneficial or not really depends on ones practice.

Once, somebody asked Grandmaster Yang Chengfu the following: “We never see you putting on any big show of power, so how is it that you can blast people such a distance with such sharp focus?” Grandmaster Yang replied: “It’s because I am issuing relaxed energy.” Somebody else asked Grandmaster Yang Shaohou the following: “You seem so relaxed when you issue energy, how can that possibly be so powerful?” Grandmaster Yang replied: “It’s precisely because I’m relaxed that my energy is so effective.” The replies of these two teachers establish very clearly that relaxation is the unalterable foundation of Taijiquan both for push hands and combative applications.

Master Li Yaxuan’s Explanatory Notes on Push Hands
[Excerpts from Chinese book: 李雅轩杨氏太极拳推手诠真; translation by Scott Meredith

[TaiChiTJ]

Thanks for responding so quickly with thoughtful comments. I will mull them over also!

[yeniseri]

Something like the difference between a gallon and an Imperial Gallon?
Me thinks the pound of lead is heavier than the pound of feathers! Jus' sayin!

[TaiChiTJ]

By the way, the illustration in another thread here in RSF is from Wei Shu Ren's book. It includes the lines emanating from the back. So all RSF members have already been initiated into the all-encompassing secret! (LOL)
Except Bao has trumped the whole scene with his kite. Thanks Bao. Ah, well. You all have got me thinking. Thanks again. I am working late tonight.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23461&sid=2ff8c35eb05e7e5ceaddca80e1b298fd

[wayne hansen]

If this stuff worked his pushing with Stuart shaw would have had a different outcome
He should go and try him again because what I see of his dragon wrestling he would be much harder to handle

[Bao]

If this stuff worked his pushing with Stuart shaw would have had a different outcome
He should go and try him again because what I see of his dragon wrestling he would be much harder to handle

It's not much a question if "this stuff works" or not, but more a question about if the person speaking about it can make "it" work.

[wayne hansen]

I don't get the difference

[Doc Stier]

Any fighting style or method is ultimately only as good as the individual practitioner attempting to apply it in a real life scenario against a non-compliant opponent. Many individuals in every style believe they understand the core concepts and foundation principles of their art, and may even be able to demonstrate their form sets with some proficiency, but yet are sadly incapable of effectively using what they have learned for practical application. Sometimes this dilemma is the fault of having received inadequate instruction, but most often it is due to an intellectual misunderstanding or misinterpretation of basic principles and/or a lack of serious training over a sufficient length of time to internalize the method.