training with Shen Tiegen

[driftwood]

Greetings RSF people.

I have been lurking on this board for years, and this is my first post. As I feel that most people here are stuck in their ways, (can anyone argue with that assessment?) I reply mainly out of courtesy to Shanghai Jay who I contacted here and who graciously introduced me to Shen Tiegen. I was fortunate enough to train with Shen Laoshi for a few weeks this past November. Jay asked me to write something of my experience, so I am doing so and bumping this up to the top.

As many here have already attested to, Shen is an exceptional martial artist and teacher. I have been training Chinese internal martial arts for decades and visiting Shanghai annually since 2004 and I can only say that I wish I had met Shen Laoshi earlier.

I will say however, that training with Shen is probably best for those living in Shanghai or willing to stay for a longer period of time. Chinese language skills will help of course, but are not 100% necessary. People with Taiji experience, of any variety but particularly the the Wu or Yang variants will obtain deeply valuable knowledge from the very first lesson.

Shen is a master at the top of his game. He has distilled a lifetime of martial experience (extensive research and training in free fighting, qinna, shuaijiao, etc.) into the Wu family Taiji system, thus giving you a natural framework on which to rest real (very real in Shen's manifestation) martial skills. I have met others with better skills in particular areas, but this level of comprehensive ability is very very rare.

You will still need to be smart enough to put the material together for yourself, as he isn't going to spoon feed it you like a baby, this being China after all, (wouldn't that be nice!) but Shen is a meticulous, precise and realistic Taiji teacher and if you follow his instruction seriously and put in the hard work you will surely benefit.

Please contact Shanghai Jay for current information regarding the logistics of training with Shen in Shanghai. Feel free to contact me as well if you have any other questions. I'm happy to discuss training with Shen in Shanghai or the general scene there.

After many years living in Asia, I am now located in Seattle, Wa. so anyone nearby is welcome to contact me as well.

One more thing: keyboard warriors: IMHO the video of Shen currently available does not accurately represent the level of his ability or the experience of meeting him. You will have to get off your seat, and get on a plane and see for yourself.

Thank you.

: )

[willie]

No, I get to the site and then there's a banner to a crappy game and it takes me to the app store. I checked other devices and they are ok. Only iPad seems to be affected.

So I read it and thanks for the short briefing. Hope that you will write more about it. I know about similar sets but never heard about that set of exercises. Anyway, I've never heard anyone who had had anything bad or even slightly negative to say about Mr Shen. Seems to be a really solid guy and an awesome teacher.

there's too many errors in that video, not even close. not for me, but better than a lot of other people.

[chenyaolong]

Here's a small update, as it was almost a year ago now since I wrote that. As mentioned by everyone who has been fortunate to meet him and train with him, Shen is an excellent martial artist who can fully use what he does.

However, at the present I am not training under him, but instead I chose to train Xinyi Liuhe under Yu Jiang. This is nothing against Shen himself, or his skill. One on one training with Shen in the park wasn't getting me what I feel I need in my training at the moment, particularly as I don't have a real foundation in Taiji (knowing the Chen long form and a bit of basic push hands doesn't really count), so most of what he was showing me I was unable to really absorb. Especially as I had no partners to practice with. I decided to go for XYLH as it is taught in a more structured format, in a nice school which has good training equipment and lots of training partners.

If my schedule becomes less busy, I would definitely train with Shen again, but I would have to take a friend along to make the most out of it.

[willie]

[quote="chenyaolong"]Here's a small update


o.k.

[grzegorz]

I'm sure if we looked at your teacher fighting we would find errors too. It just depends on what you're looking for.

To be honest it's this kind of back and forth in CMA that has burned me out on meeting with other CMA people and why I generally only post in the Off Topic section.

[willie]

I'm sure if we looked at your teacher fighting we would find errors too. It just depends on what you're looking for.

To be honest it's this kind of back and forth in CMA that has burned me out on meeting with other CMA people and why I generally only post in the Off Topic section.

it's always best not to comment at all because I find that there is only one real way to tell how good someone really is and that's
feeling it, but either that camera is way out of square or they are overextending way too far.
not saying that the guys not good, he looks fun to train with, but that is a no no.

[grzegorz]

Well I will comment because Shen's style is his own and his taiji is not your teacher's taiji. I think judging someone from a video is as ridiculous as judging someone's skill you have never met.

Even when I was training with Shen he always told me that my taiji will by own and not his, this is the advantage I believe MMA has over CMA, in MMA everyone knows that there isn't one size that fits all meanwhile if you show a taiji guy the Shanghai Wu fast form you will likely hear, "That's not taiji."

My point has nothing to do with your teacher or any teacher my point is criticism for some video made mostly just for fun is pretty pointless. I say just go out and train and find teachers and systems that work for you. Since I now work fourteen hour days and commute three I think training anything is a privilege and something I wish I had time for, but I don't.

[willie]

Well I will comment because Shen's style is his own and his taiji is not your teacher's taiji. I think judging someone from a video is as ridiculous as judging someone's skill you have never met.

Even when I was training with Shen he always told me that my taiji will by own and not his, this is the advantage I believe MMA has over CMA, in MMA everyone knows that there isn't one size that fits all meanwhile if you show a taiji guy the Shanghai Wu fast form you will likely hear, "That's not taiji."

My point has nothing to do with your teacher or any teacher my point is criticism for some video made mostly just for fun is pretty pointless. I say just go out and train and find teachers and systems that work for you. Since I now work fourteen hour days and commute three I think training anything is a privilege and something I wish I had time for, but I don't.

what I meant to say was maybe I shouldn't comment, not you.
I agree with you.

[grzegorz]

Thanks for clarifying.

It's unfortunate CMA has so much infighting but I suppose it always will.

My apologies for misreading you.

[gzregorz]

Here's a small update, as it was almost a year ago now since I wrote that. As mentioned by everyone who has been fortunate to meet him and train with him, Shen is an excellent martial artist who can fully use what he does.

However, at the present I am not training under him, but instead I chose to train Xinyi Liuhe under Yu Jiang. This is nothing against Shen himself, or his skill. One on one training with Shen in the park wasn't getting me what I feel I need in my training at the moment, particularly as I don't have a real foundation in Taiji (knowing the Chen long form and a bit of basic push hands doesn't really count), so most of what he was showing me I was unable to really absorb. Especially as I had no partners to practice with. I decided to go for XYLH as it is taught in a more structured format, in a nice school which has good training equipment and lots of training partners.

If my schedule becomes less busy, I would definitely train with Shen again, but I would have to take a friend along to make the most out of it.

I didn't see this the first time but it illustrates my point exactly in that you have to find what works for you.

[willie]

Thanks for clarifying.

It's unfortunate CMA has so much infighting but I suppose it always will.

My apologies for misreading you.

Welcome to he realm of unsatisfied spirits. LOL!

[driftwood]

Ahhhhh,

Well this is pretty much as expected. I neglected to re-visit this thread for a week and it turns out I am not really the one lurking around here after all. Willie has illustrated my first and last points very succinctly. The subtleties of Shanghai Wu style are lost on the imperceptive, so it isn't surprising. Willie, you are very welcome to share your teachers video so that we can all see the light or the inevitable -errors- (but preferably on your own thread ... as this thread isn't meant to be about you). Criticizing others without posting a counter example is at best what? rude at the least. I guess it would be if anyone was actually reading this, but your probably talking to yourself.

As per the last point in my previous post, I do not really want to discuss video analysis, but we must understand that there are many different contexts involved and that they matter. Public community instruction intended for mostly beginners (for fun ... as mentioned) .... vs private instruction for more experienced practitioners.. is not the same. If a video isn't taken at all or shown on the RSF does the practitioner or the skill even exist? Contemplate that for a moment. This video is very different compared to your example and you might have chosen it if you had a different and more uplifting mindset, but to me even this still doesn't convey the experience of meeting the man.



I wrote this post, not to argue with the faceless people of the internet, or to say Shen is the best ever, but out of deep respect for him and the lessons I learned practicing with him for a limited time. In private, he gave me very valuable instruction regarding what really works (at all ranges- something I have discovered is rare to find in other Taiji styles, Wu style retains much combat knowledge) and how to be aware of the conditions necessary to use it as opposed to what is only sometimes useful and better trained to develop basic qualities, and he was generous with his time as he did so.

Bringing a partner with you when you take lessons with Shen is an excellent suggestion. IMHO, to make the most of training with Shen you will need to also commit to learning the Wu style form. It is like the pith statements of Buddhism that condense the path and its potential to something memorable and digestible. You need this framework to keep track of the sheer amount of material and applications being presented to you. I had already learned this form before meeting him, which had advantages but also came with sloppy habits. Starting from scratch wouldn't be a disadvantage. Shen is old enough, thus fully experienced and capable, and also not too old, meaning he can and will really push you. On top of this, he is a generous and kind man who genuinely wants to share his art. I hope some people read this and what others have written and take advantage of this opportunity. I suspect that those who will do so are not already members here but may find this thread by internet search.

best wishes.

[willie]

Ahhhhh,

Well this is pretty much as expected.

nice vid man.

[Bugang]

Yea, it's when he starts explaining all the Shuai Jiao throws I get lost. All I know is I'm on the floor.

Yeah, if you ask him about repeating and explaining what he just done, he mostly shows something else from the same situation and explains:
"many many changes"

[Serena]

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