Paul Andrews and the Xingyi Academy

[edededed]

In my own experience:
Piquan has many variations, including fist versions (Che style seems to do this as their "standard" piquan, some other lines call this "old piquan"). The fist version strikes like a "hammerfist."
Bengquan has many variations as well, including several different kinds of fists. I suppose that the "beng" part is the force and direction (forward) more than the specific fist shape, which can be changed per the target or situation.

[dspyrido]

Now before someone says "well that may be true for bgz but this thread is about XYQ!", you all do realize that the 4 fists of Xingyi should literally be 4 different shaped fists. Pi Quan is the most important, not because it's an open palm strike (which is a good flinch type attack) but because you are training your ability to transition from a relaxed open hand to a tight fist. Initially the standard Pi Quan uses the Zuan fist but you should really drill the hell out of it while transitioning into all four fist shapes.

4 fists? Do you mean 5 elements?

As for the shape of the fists - I was shown variations on the knuckles and then told - get on with training as it's the legs that are the foundation for force generation and then the bows get built into it.

Later I was told to hit the bags and trees. Use the palms? Use the fist? Pivot the fist? Put out a knuckle or two? Don't worry about it. Just get on with learning to hit hard, condition whatever you pick and after a while when you hit people they just seem to get hurt with a light strike.

[GrahamB]

Question: How many XingYi guys does it take to change a lightbulb?

Answer: THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT IN OUR STYLE!

[wushutiger]

http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=514761:donnie-yens-powerful-wing-chun-leaves-boxer-mike-tyson-with-fractured-finger&Itemid=4#axzz3b70tLRRU

Let Tyson change it

[Lu da]

Just as there is more than one way to skin a cat there is more than one way to punch someone.

I think, and my perspective is likely different than some others, that xingyi is more of a philosophy of combat as opposed to a religious doctrine of movement. While some concepts of alignment are important so as to maximize force and efficiency while remaining as relaxed and capable of change as possible, other concepts are merely an idea. I think the shape of the fist in this case is merely an idea. It would be absurd to assume that one fist or hand shape should be used for every strike or even most strikes when each target on the body requires a different type of fist.

For instance striking the skull with the fingertips as in a spear hand strike is inviting injury on yourself even with some degree of iron training, whereas striking the armpit with a fist is really not the best way to get things done. I may be more inclined to strike the ribs with a Phoenix eye fist as I'm hoping to put more force in one place and seperate the ribs. The same fist to the throat would not be as efficient as maybe a panthers head fist. Of course all of these examples are based on circumstances which are always changing.

I liked seeing the conch fist that was demonstrated. I'm sure pandrews has experimented with the ins and outs of its uses and found it to be an efficient way of transmitting force in certain situations. All situations? No, probably not, but nothing works 100% of the time.

Can you do piquan with a fist? Of course you can. Can you do szuan with fingertips? Yes absolutely. It's all just principles of movement not dogma, that's why there is do much variation between families yet in the end it's all still xingyi.

[dspyrido]

Can you do piquan with a fist? Of course you can. Can you do szuan with fingertips? Yes absolutely. It's all just principles of movement not dogma, that's why there is do much variation between families yet in the end it's all still xingyi.

I think the problem here is a question around bad fist structures vs good as opposed to can you vary them based on stylistic preferences.

Bad structure things break - you get hurt. Good structure things don't - target gets hurt. But with training and correct targeting the golden rules get blurry eg take fingers

- conditioned fingers in eyes - hurts target bad
- unconditioned fingers on elbow - not so good (like Mike Tysons facing the awesome power of wc )

In the end if the impact point does not buckle then how the rest of the body is applied is far more important.

[Lu da]

I understand.

I do plenty of iron training and I have no desire to strike a persons elbow with any part of my body

[Wanderingdragon]

Question: How many XingYi guys does it take to change a lightbulb?

Answer: THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT IN OUR STYLE!

Real answer: LET THE BJJ GUY DO IT !

[mrtoes]

Question: How many XingYi guys does it take to change a lightbulb?

Answer: THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT IN OUR STYLE!

Quite and I really don't understand why people close themselves off from other people's training methods. If you train the hsing i body method - the thing that really matters - then the choice of striking surface is just detail. If it works then it works.

Matthew

[RobP2]

Question: How many XingYi guys does it take to change a lightbulb?

Answer: THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT IN OUR STYLE!

Real answer: LET THE BJJ GUY DO IT !

No good, he can't reach it from the ground.

[wushutiger]

If you train the hsing i body method - the thing that really matters -

In Xingyi, it all matters.