Differences between different branches of Yiquan?

[nicklinjm]

As someone who has had some very basic training in Yiquan in the past and who would like to get deeper into it, could some of the board members enlighten me as to the differences in approach between the main branches of Yiquan?

When I say main branches I'm thinking of:

- Yao brothers / Cui Ruibin
- Wang Xuanjie's Dachengquan
- Han brothers (Han Xingqiao's sons, Han Jingyu and Han Jingchen)

Obviously if anyone has experiences with other branches would be great if you could share your input as well.

[hodmeist]

I have limited experience of Yiquan although back in the nineties I did have the privileged of meeting and training briefly with Wang Xuanjie.
The Yao branch seems to have incorporated western boxing methods where I never saw this in Wang Xuanjie method. Wang had a heavy Bagua influence and his Jianwu shows this where I find that hard to identify in the Jianwu I have seen from Yao or Cui Ruibin. A lot of the standing postures seem similar although the mental aspect differs from teacher to teacher. One day I asked Wang what was more important, standing pile or fighting and he answered they were both equally important. For some strange reason, that has always stayed with me. There is a heavy political difference between the two schools as Yao states that Wang was not a student of Wang Xiangzhai as he claims in his books. They produced photographic evidence to support this in the form of Wang Xuanjie sitting beside Yao Zongxun and other students. I found Wang to be a loveable rogue really and I prefer his Jianwu to anyone else I have seen since. Yao Zongxun was the "official" successor to Wang Xiangzhai but I know some people say Wang Xuanjie reached a higher level. I have no knowledge of the Han school other than a book I purchased written by Han Xingqiao where the standing postures seem much the same as Yao. Cui Ruibin is said to be the top student of Yao Zongxun and I have heard nothing but good things from people who have trained with him. I haven't seen a Wang Xuanjie student with Cui Ruibins skill but my exposure is very limited. In short, I would say the standing pile exercises are similar in outer form across all schools but the "yi" methods differ. The fighting I have seen from Yao school incorporates a lot of similar exercises to western boxing where Wang's method uses a lot more Bagua and Shuai Jiao.

[edededed]

What happened to all our yiquan guys?

I dabbled a bit with yiquan before; the standing and shili was from Yao Zongxun (but not the Yao brothers or Cui Ruibin). I noticed that we never learned some of the more simple-looking shili in the Yao brothers' books (damn, forgot the names).

The sanshou/duanshou was from Zhao Daoxin - so there was no boxing-type movement. Instead, a lot of the movements looked like sort of violent, aggressive xingyiquan (i.e. wuxingquan variants). Zhao's zhanzhuang was lower and harder (i.e. quite close to mabu postures from the beginning).

[Wanderingdragon]

If you have trained in your art beyond the point of necessary technique, internal principle is all that's left. Yiquan, IMO, not an art or fighting system, but a training method.

[nicklinjm]

I know, all the Yiquan guys must be away practicing their zhan zhuang ;P Specifically I was hoping that small John (jjy5016) and Andrzej (Dacheng) would comment, as they are two instructor-level Yiquan guys on this board from different branches.

Thanks to Hodmeist and Ed for your comments, didn't realise that WXJ's group had such a strong bagua influence. Do you know who are the main teachers in Beijing this days for the Wang Xuanjie group?

Also very interesting comments about the Yiquan from Zhao Daoxin, especially the low, difficult stance training. Was the material similar to what Gao Chen teaches? (高臣 - studied from Li Hongxi, who knew and was friends with Zhao Daoxin in Tianjin)

For contrast, one of the only Yiquan groups I have been able to find in Shanghai is from Yang Shaogeng, and they have little to no emphasis on standing for a long time in zhan zhuang, focus much more on Shi Li. I have been trying their approach, but not sure whether you can have good Shi Li without going through a phase of doing sustained (30 mins - 1 hr) zhan zhuang practice.

Any thoughts?

[Taste of Death]

In Han Shi Yi Quan we only stand for as long as we can maintain our zhuangtai. It's difficult to do that for 30 minutes let alone 60. All yi quan is a moving meditation.

This is our zhan zhuang.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MYh8_LpVB04

[Overlord]

From what I was told, Han also practiced liuhebafa, so he integrated parts into his Jianwu, which seems less obvious in other branch. In fact, Han's wife is a indoor student of Wu Yihui.

[middleway]

TOD and any other of you guys in the know quick question.

In videos like this of Yi Quan I am always struck by the side to side 'wobble' for want of a better word as the teacher moves. If you watch his head you will see as he is raising his hands or moving he is rocking side to side slightly.

Whats the idea with this?

thanks in advance.

[Wanderingdragon]

Not seein a video here, and not one of the guys in the know. But strongly believe such arts a Yiquan, Iliq quan, Ziranmen, even JKD are at a loss with true classical foundation.

[transit]

Please elaborate WD.

[Wanderingdragon]

Not much to elaborate, if you don't understand internal principle, which the lesson of Xing I, Tai chi, and Bagua, it's gonna be pretty hard to grasp the essence of the method these arts subscribe to.

[Taste of Death]

TOD and any other of you guys in the know quick question.

In videos like this of Yi Quan I am always struck by the side to side 'wobble' for want of a better word as the teacher moves. If you watch his head you will see as he is raising his hands or moving he is rocking side to side slightly.

Whats the idea with this?

thanks in advance.

In the video of Glenn Pasion he is on the balls of his feet so he can move at anytime. He may be pistoning his legs a bit. Internally, he is trying to capture his vital energy. Han Jing Chen describes it as being like a marble on a plate. He is trying to hold on to that feeling. As far as balanced movement is concerned, we try to act like a buoy so that is why it looks like he is wobbling.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qq0OQBdIhsc

[wayne hansen]

I learnt the same sets that taste is doing here
There were 6 standing postures
Chi Kung without moving the feet
And the same 8 moving sets done here
And some hard grinding pushing more like hung gar than hsing I
I did not get the linage from the teacher Peter Zhu
It was over 25 years ago and I have only passed them on to one student
The name I was given was
Zhong he ba zhou guan
The internal essence of the eight style fist

[Taste of Death]

I learnt the same sets that taste is doing here

That is not me in the video. It is Glenn Pasion from Hawaii.

And some hard grinding pushing more like hung gar than hsing I

There is no hung gar influence in our art. We practice what the Hans consider the true hsing i.

[wayne hansen]

I didn't say that only that the pushing was like hung gar