World's largest miao dao

[Peacedog]

So can we call you Da Dao/Big Dao Bluestein now?:)

Anyway, really cool weapon. Good luck with your practice.

I always found working with a weighted weapon really pushed my intention forward when I followed up with empty hand practice.

[wiesiek]

Have no experience with heavy a" la weapon" staff,
but
is it really difference worth of effort, between them and training with KB`for strength?
Right now you can chose from 4- 32 kg ,- nice plastic -fantastic covered KB`s.
In my youth we had just 16 and 32 kg pieces of raw iron, not so pretty to touch

[kenneth fish]

[jonathan.bluestein]

Dr. Fish, I am not sure that dragging the commentary to this low a level befits your age, status or reputation (to which you would have likely replied that my comments befit mine, "ha ha ha"). There is no pride to take in gaining status by making others smaller than oneself. I would expect a slightly more honorable comment from a person who is, after all, being politely and specifically thanked on my book's acknowledgement page. I suspect that once I even asked your student, shifu Julian Dale, to ask you whether you would be interested in a free complimentary copy because of your past aid. Then again, your response had been in time to block me on facebook for no apparent reason (not that you ever approved me as a friend anyway). Quite a character you are! I vividly remember how you had portrayed Israelis as 'being rude', and yourself advocating strength training which includes lifting and waving around heavy objects. Now however as a gesture and token of your everlasting niceties, you have commented rudely on my efforts and suggested that similar strength training is a silly idea. This is altogether unfortunate. I respect you for your lifetime achievements in the martial arts and your knowledge, but it is nothing but shameful that you so often choose to attempt to ridicule or belittle me (and others also) for the sake of your antics. Having established a reputation as a know-it-all on a martial arts forum does not grant you the moral right to become that forum's bully, yet sadly in recent times I see more offense in your posts than wisdom or knowledge. I do miss the past, somewhat nicer Dr. Fish from whom I have certainly learned a few things. What a pity that your disagreement with my opinions have brought you to this point.

[wiesiek]

hehe,
Jonathan, don`t be so big Square , turn on relax mode,
Dr F., put some light on my question

[charles]

I would expect a slightly more honorable comment from a person who is, after all, being politely and specifically thanked on my book's acknowledgement page. I suspect that once I even asked your student, shifu Julian Dale, to ask you whether you would be interested in a free complimentary copy because of your past aid. Then again, your response had been in time to block me on facebook for no apparent reason (not that you ever approved me as a friend anyway).

Fascinating.

In short, because I've scratched your back, you are now obligated to scratch mine, regardless of what you think of what I do.

True, there is a lot of that that goes on in the Chinese martial arts world/society. It's one of the things I dislike most about these arts, the pomp and circumstance given between fellow wannabe's to elevate each other's status. Some modicum of my faith in the arts is restored when I encounter people who are intellectually honest and aren't willing to play that game.

[I am...]

One does not have to be a skilled practitioner to write a book. Respect is earned, expectation has nothing to do with it.

[kenneth fish]

wiesiek:

Yes, there is actually quite a lot of difference - it has to do with the eccentric nature of the weight (for example a sledge hammer or guan dao) and the length of the lever. Eccentric weights are not centrally balanced (like a barbell or a kettle bell) and the long lever places greater stress on the lifting arm as the height and distance from the motivating muscles increases. For a great example of someone doing leveraged lifts, google Slim Farman (I include a short bio here) http://www.bobwhelan.com/history/farman.html. This is also why hammer exercises and heavy Indian club training was popular among strength lifters in the late 1800's and early 1900's - it is a totally unique challenge in terms of muscle recruitment and balance.

Jonathon: Your response to an obvious jest (given the topic) speaks for itself.

[wiesiek]

thank you, kenneth
I should use more word in my question, - /regardless of the eccentric nature of the weight , maybe?, tough - too obvious for mentioning ,/
After 3 months of learning the sequence, I started to work with 1kg all the time, instead 0,25-0,5 kg. commonly used around.
I can image , that working thru the whole form with 2 -3 kg. - swordo-mordo-tool - can be beneficial,
but much more heavier ??
Like standard weight lifting only, I suppose .
In the series of only one cut- 5 times left and right, and rep., etc.
after couple of years - possibility to connect it into the form - arise.../J. is talkin` about doing the whole form at once/
Isn`t is faster way to gain MA benefit, when workin` for real with real / or slightly heavier/ tool, and KB for strength?
I mean - there is border,- sword it is also precision, not only the power ...
well, borders are personal,
if you workin` out with 32 KB`s everyday, - 10 kg sword shoudn`t be the problem...

e:
using the axe to make ready wood for winter,-was commonly used in my village ,
hammering I know only from Utube

ps
there is the guy, close to my space, with the enormous, over 5kg middle-age type sword , but he had - a big counterweight on the end of the handle - different story /closer to the KB`s /

[kenneth fish]

Training swords and weapons in traditional CMA tend to be quite heavy. I gave away a broadsword that weighed about 12 pounds or so, and had one that was about 16 lbs, eccentrically weighted to the front. Kettlebell training and barbell training will only cross over to an extent - weight training is to some degree task specific. At master Zhang's school we had a hardwood staff about 5 inches thick - quite heavy. Also a spear that had about a kilogram worth of weight at the end. I cannot imagine how to duplicate the strength and coordination built that way with a kettlebell or traditional dumbbell. I still train with a metal staff (an old style iron bar from a barbell set) for staff and spear movements - as you move it away and back you are essentially changing the moment arm and the effective weight on your arms and back.

[dspyrido]

I still train with a metal staff (an old style iron bar from a barbell set) for staff and spear movements - as you move it away and back you are essentially changing the moment arm and the effective weight on your arms and back.

Held at the edge (vs. the middle) doing the 4 movement pole basics (left/right/dip/pierce)?

With the wide diameter weapons the training seems to focus on the grip and use of the body to control the weight. Do you think it's almost like this training has shifted away from learning to use the weapon to body conditioning for chin-na & to some extent striking?

[dspyrido]

Hey jonathan - if you lighten up you might go from author to rockstar.



Btw - it might sound like I'm making fun but I actually like this show and the topic.

[kenneth fish]

Held just as I would any other staff - the movements I train are thrust, lifting up (tiao and gua gun, in both a bow stance and cross legged squat), overhead block and strike low (cat stance), swinging left to right and right to left, scooping (liao), overhead strike (pi gun), spinning, and (most difficult) "sweeping away the leaves". The grip is mobile, so that the forward hand slides along the staff (typical Northern staff hand movement).

This article gives a nice definition of what a moment arm and torque are, as well as making some very good points about postural mechanics

http://www.ptdirect.com/training-design/training-fundamentals/moment-arms-force-vectors-and-a-squat-analysis

[edededed]

Just curious, but what kind of "spinning" do you practice? I've seen 3 kinds in CMA thus far:
1. Grip does not move (hands stay in place, while spinning the staff/spear) (seems common in traditional CMA?)
2. Grip does not move, but staff/spear is held between the fore- and middle fingers of one of the hands (i.e. in "wushu")
3. Grip switches each rotation of the staff/spear (hard to explain, but I learned this one for seven star rod in bagua)

Also, I've seen two grips - mainly the "yinba" grip (top of both hands facing the center of the staff), and the "other" grip (top of both hands facing forward/up). The former I saw mostly in some bagua staffwork, the second seems more common...

[kenneth fish]

edededededed:

Usually the first. As far as grasping the staff, with a wooden staff it is with the fingertips and the hollow of the butt of the palm. With the metal staff it is a full grip, "hegu" (crook of the thumb and forefinger) in one line. The point of grasping with the fingertips and the hollow of the palm is so that the hand and fingers are only on one side of the staff - they are not exposed on the blocking side.