The core - training tips?

[wayne hansen]

You would absolutely not be able to do a turkish get up or handstand without a strong core, no matter how strong your arms are, it's that simple. Your entire body works as a unit, with lines of fascia, muscles, and joint systems connecting together in order to produce a particular movement pattern. The shoulder girdle which includes the scapula, latissimus dorsi, the SITS muscle group, pectoralis major/minor, trapezius, etc. all require the whole of the body to stabilize the weight overhead while moving from the prone (laying on one's back) to standing and back down again. A similar process is needed for the handstand.

I have no doubt that the Tiangan trains the core, the thought I have always had about Traditional Chinese bodyweight condition neigong is that a great deal of the time the upper body isn't loaded enough to produce the proper training response, and thus one may not get the appropriate stimulus in order to understand how to connect the core of the body (i.e. the torso) with the upper extremities.

http://functionalmovement.com/ has some great material on this type of stuff.

If done correctly you will
It was about core strength before the fitness industry ever heard the name
The initial question was about core not limbs
Training arms and legs is another matter
You are right just like running or walking even though the arms come into it they are not the primary training target

[Ian]

But what does this mean?

Most people move with too much compensation - one spinal erector doing all the work, the other soft and flabby; one iliopsoas twice the size of the other; pelvis twisted and not efficiently distributing load between the one spine and two femurs etc.

When the tension is accumulated in one area, you
-make yourself prone to injury (e.g. unable to land on your shoulder without it dislocating, unable to get stacked without herniating your spine)
-give your opponent an 'entry point' to begin manipulating your structure,
-use energy inefficiently and tire quickly.

'Neutral' simply means your hips don't suffer from lower crossed syndrome... your spine isn't hyperlordotic, kyphotic, scoliotic, military straight... your shoulders aren't upper crossed etc. etc.

[Even when you're back arching for a suplex or mounted guillotine, side bending to insert your hips with the underhook, twisting for a de ashi harai or whatever, your core should still feel neutral, as if you're doing nothing, as the force is distributed evenly from hands to feet, crown to coccyx. That's one of the reasons I'm able to grapple with someone 50lbs heavier for 15 minutes, and he gets gassed out while my breathing remains even.]

And if your core isn't neutral, IME trying to strengthen the weak muscle group before you release and unlock the corresponding compensating muscle group, just doesn't work.

It's nothing esoteric.

Thai boxers work the shit out of their core .... no?

Mysterious ....

Yes they do, and I love muay thai so I'm not knocking it, but nak muay are also typically riddled with injuries, and many of them have to retire in their 30s.

[middleway]

Most people move with too much compensation - one spinal erector doing all the work, the other soft and flabby; one iliopsoas twice the size of the other; pelvis twisted and not efficiently distributing load between the one spine and two femurs etc.

When the tension is accumulated in one area, you
-make yourself prone to injury (e.g. unable to land on your shoulder without it dislocating, unable to get stacked without herniating your spine)
-give your opponent an 'entry point' to begin manipulating your structure,
-use energy inefficiently and tire quickly.

'Neutral' simply means your hips don't suffer from lower crossed syndrome... your spine isn't hyperlordotic, kyphotic, scoliotic, military straight... your shoulders aren't upper crossed etc. etc.

[Even when you're back arching for a suplex or mounted guillotine, side bending to insert your hips with the underhook, twisting for a de ashi harai or whatever, your core should still feel neutral, as if you're doing nothing, as the force is distributed evenly from hands to feet, crown to coccyx. That's one of the reasons I'm able to grapple with someone 50lbs heavier for 15 minutes, and he gets gassed out while my breathing remains even.]

And if your core isn't neutral, IME trying to strengthen the weak muscle group before you release and unlock the corresponding compensating muscle group, just doesn't work.

It's nothing esoteric.

Great post. Thanks Ian.

[Rabbit]

Yes, very interesting indeed, thank you

Can you say something about your approach to identifying and redressing imbalances?

[mrtoes]

Sounds good to me Ian - also wondering what you train to develop these qualities?

Cheers

Matthew

[wiesiek]

lifting the kBs over the head / kb swing/

I did lot of it in young age, and returning to this simple exercise after couple of the years - nei gong only.
Now , - with internal knowledge

[Bhassler]

.

[I-mon]

So we've got hanging leg curls, crawling, tian gan, handstands, turkish getups and kettlebell swings, and then feldenkrais/systema-esque awareness and "unlocking" mobility+posture type work from coming from Ian?

I'd say that sounds like a good mix.

[Rabbit]

And not a sit up or crunch in sight!

[Fa Xing]

And not a sit up or crunch in sight!

As it should be!

[yfaway]

Dynamic Zhan zhuang (two legs fixed in a position while doing various exercise slowly with the hands and the rest of the body) and static Zhan zhuang.

I started out with purely dynamic Zhan zhuang. Around 5 years mark you start feeling that the body is beginning to connect in the form of movement in the dantien area and the squishing loud noise. I didn't practise hard, just couple hours every week, so other people will likely get the feeling earlier.

Static Zhan zhuang provides a honest perspective on the meaning of standing straight. I think anyone doing zhan zhuang must have an eureka moment when they find out that what they thought was straight before is still a bit of a bending forward. There is a lot going on in the hip area. There is a force going downward from the weight in the upper body and a force pushing upward from the ground. They meet in the middle of the body. There are a lot of muscles in the hip that we need to relax. But once we get a good hang of it, the chest actually raises up a bit. The hardest thing is to remember to keep the body straight and relax in every day activities.

How do you like to train the core?

How best to connect the top and the bottom of the body via the core?

Ta

[Wuyizidi]

To build on what Ian and Bhassler were saying, the latest understanding on the function of core is not so much using it to do something, but using it to prevent something. And what it prevents is the spine from changing its shape to bend and twist inadvertently as result of what your limbs are doing (under load).

Here's a fun exercise to illustrate the concept:
1. lie on the floor on your back like a starfish
2. now randomly wave your arms and legs (especially the legs, raise them high and go crazy) about like a baby throwing tantrum
3. does any of that cause your lower back to arch upward as result? Or can you hold your torso perfectly in place as before, so arms and legs are the only parts moving?

That's what we want in fighting - the torso of the body remain centered and neutral no matter what the rest of the body is doing. In Bagua when you do mud stepping, teachers often talk about how if someone just look at you above the waist, they should see no movement - like you're riding in a old-fashioned sedan (or modern day car). Similarly, when you're really close to your opponent and you try to sneak in a kick, the opponent shouldn't be able to guess that by seeing your upper body leaning backward or forward. Core muscle plays a huge role in these situations.

The two most flexible parts of spine are the neck and lower back area, which are the areas most people experience pain. That pain comes from improper mechanics. For example, sitting requires work. But we often have to sit more than 8 hours, so when our muscles get fatigued, we compromise the form, letting the bones bear the load rather than using muscle (slouching). And most of that pressures then goes to the lower back.

This is a nice article that sums this up and suggest some good exercises: https://www.t-nation.com/training/build ... human-core