What are these "skills" gong fu people talk about?

[marvin8]

The pro athletes with the highest standing vertical jump are apparently olympic lifters. You could try lifting...

What does this have to do with fighting though? This topic is becoming pretty weird

This can help in defending against multiple opponents:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p310Y0tctr8&t=4m22s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPZvtIDLjpI

[shawnsegler]

Though I'm fairly certain that, historically, this had nothing to do with jumping up walls and being nimble on terrain.

So what's the point? The good thing is we don't have to guess. 'Why' its important has been made abundantly clear in recent decades. We also don't have to look into the murky past to witness amazing feats of athleticism. It's all right here:

The point is you tend to bitch about traditional stuff- refer to it as weird, unnecessary and irrelevant to your definition of what doing a martial art should involve. While it's important to have some skepticism it's also important to be open to things. You might as well ask what jumping rope has to do with boxing? People are drawn to different arts and they have things in them that they value as part of their art. They might be different yogic exercises included for the long term good health of a professional martial arts person or whatever. The point is that it seem like your complaints on this thread are just there to look down on something you don't understand.

You don't need to look to the past for different exercises if your desire is to pick what you think the best exercises are for each muscle group and technique from here or there and just jury rigging your own style and exercise regime together but lots of people are drawn to traditional styles for whatever reason and practice them because the entire practice makes them stronger and healthier and gives them fighting skills regardless of whether they are what is the most popular exercise today amongst sport fitness professionals. And as an aside I've seen a lot of people going back to indian clubs and kettlebells and stuff the past few years.

My 2c.

[wayne hansen]

There are more than enough methods to give you ability
Time boredom and motavation are what's needed

[dspyrido]

And as an aside I've seen a lot of people going back to indian clubs and kettlebells and stuff the past few years.

This is what I was thinking. 30 years ago kettlebells were esoteric. Even now there's not much indian clubs but training vids from ~80 years ago feature them as staple training tools.

20 years ago the fad was isolated muscle training for size. Now many adopt more explosive training methods which where viewed as dangerous (& they are when done badly).

Things change. Fads come and go. But for fitness good training is not that complex. Applying them to combat does require a lot of refinement. I know a lot of strong, fit people who cant apply it in combat.

[Ian]

The point is you tend to bitch about traditional stuff- refer to it as weird, unnecessary and irrelevant to your definition of what doing a martial art should involve.

I practice traditional stuff daily. In this topic alone, I agreed with mrtoes and WVMark on the existence of unusual power and stability in the internal styles, said I'm working on expressing the same effects in my fights, and talked about pankration and leitai. Sorry, but you're mistaken.

[wiesiek]

hehe KB - esoteric?
pieces of something heavy with the handle are internationally interchangeable ,
and idea looks pretty old + not reserved for TCMA only ...

[wiesiek]

and
KB`s are definitely single most important piece of equipment for achieving the
>skilz < </sound with big reverb./

[Finny]

[shawnsegler]

The point is you tend to bitch about traditional stuff- refer to it as weird, unnecessary and irrelevant to your definition of what doing a martial art should involve.

I practice traditional stuff daily. In this topic alone, I agreed with mrtoes and WVMark on the existence of unusual power and stability in the internal styles, said I'm working on expressing the same effects in my fights, and talked about pankration and leitai. Sorry, but you're mistaken.

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering...if so, Mea Culpa...but for what it's worth my statement about the dismissal of different traditional training methods for more modern ones because of an assumption that something you don't train and can't get behind is inferior simply because it doesn't meet your personal criteria stands.

That repetitive "what's that got to do with fighting", while important in the background, gets tiresome when applied to every single training method.

Best,

S

[somatai]

Competitive fighting is by nature a short lived phenomena. So much of what one might do for a long term trajectory of healthy development may not be as effective in the shorter window of time for competitive fighting while still being completely on point for the longer term goal. Once the competition is over(of any sort) then what? At 45 I am fit and flexible and can hit very hard and move very well for a chap my age, not to mention my body is a comfortable and fun place to be,this is not true for many I know.

[WVMark]

The point is you tend to bitch about traditional stuff- refer to it as weird, unnecessary and irrelevant to your definition of what doing a martial art should involve.

I practice traditional stuff daily. In this topic alone, I agreed with mrtoes and WVMark on the existence of unusual power and stability in the internal styles, said I'm working on expressing the same effects in my fights, and talked about pankration and leitai. Sorry, but you're mistaken.

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering...if so, Mea Culpa...but for what it's worth my statement about the dismissal of different traditional training methods for more modern ones because of an assumption that something you don't train and can't get behind is inferior simply because it doesn't meet your personal criteria stands.

That repetitive "what's that got to do with fighting", while important in the background, gets tiresome when applied to every single training method.

Best,

S

I can see your point about "what's that got to do with fighting" getting tiresome being applied to everything.

In the internal martial arts, the methodology can be traced back to yoga and other practices. Somewhere back in history, there was a split between health/spiritual and martial/spiritual. A lot of the training methodology was the same. Some people just used it for fighting while others didn't. BUT, that doesn't mean that this specific training methodology is the same as what's seen in most martial schools. Which goes back to the OP.

There's quite a few of the "legends" in martial arts who talk about their training and how it isn't purely "physical" training. By that, they basically mean building muscles with weights. Tossing around a kettleball to build muscles is most definitely NOT what they did. Their training changed the body to function differently than normal. They talked about how intent was the key to training. A specific kind of intent. Martial arts schools were named with the word "intent" in mind. Pun intended.

Immovability wasn't about just standing there, bracing oneself, rooted to the earth, unable to move NOR able to move oneself. Immovability was about being able to be dynamically stable such that if someone did try to push or move you, they failed. The reason you see the push tests was that they were an indication of how good you were at this. In other words, try this:
1. Stand naturally, feet shoulder width apart.
2. Have someone push on your chest. Slow at first, but then building up the strength of the push. the push can be directed 45 degrees upward if you want to try that.
3. Your arms are at your sides. NO arm/hand contact with the person pushing is allowed.
4. Stand there. Then lift the left leg (usually only a second or so). Then lift the right leg. Alternate lifting the legs while still not being pushed over. Then try walking forward into the push. You should be able to do so without any trouble.
If you're placing your hands under the pusher's arms, that's a cheat. It's an old trick and will work. But that isn't what immobility was about. It was about internal training to be dynamically stable in the center of oneself, able to move and deliver power (another topic) at will from no windup.

Now,
1. Stand naturally as above.
2. Have someone push directly across your right shoulder.
3. Again, arms down at sides. NO arm/hand contact with the person pushing.
4. Now, lift the left foot off the ground.
It's fairly easy to just take that push and ground it across the body into the left leg. But if you do that, you are stuck. That isn't what immobility is about. It's about being dynamically stable so you should be able to lift that left leg.

In this small example of internal training methodology, the benefits of immovability are better health, mental outlook, and spiritual feeling. Whether you want to take your changed body into a fighting venue is up to you.

[wayne hansen]

What school does that training come from

[WVMark]

What school does that training come from

From pretty much all of the schools of martial arts where you see the teachers demonstrating push tests. Or at least, that's what those "push test" demonstrations should be showing. I've seen Daito ryu, Aikido, tai chi show push test demonstrations. Heard that Xingyi has that, also. The two examples I gave are just better illustrations and come from things bodywork has shown me.

[MaartenSFS]

I find it quite telling that you need to ask what school those are from. "All internal styles", is the answer. Don't you claim to do ICMA??? Now I understand why you are so skeptical about everything; because you haven't experienced it.

[wayne hansen]

So every internal style does this
I am only skeptical of certain people
Correct structure and fighting ability can be taught without these basic tests
It will be interesting to see where you end up or even if you are training in a few years
You are all over the place as many here have pointed out
Every teacher you have mentioned was a master
Then when you moved on they were bums
Concentrate a little more on training and a little less in being an expert and creating your own system