Ian wrote:As for gi <--> no-gi, have you done both? Just curious, what did you find?
Started gi but I practise nogi now with the occasional gi in meetups (if they request it). Gi schools are everywhere so most people become familiar with it. Grappling (No gi) + striking with open sparring are harder to find & it requires me to go out of my way when I train but I prefer it.
Why decide nogi:
- grab points where enhanced with gi e.g. sleeves are easier to control than slippery wrists which makes it easier to handle balance. In nogi training if someone has clothes you don't have to adjust the technique or grip to hold them - it's easier.
- holding a collar front on is possible with gi but not the other way - again you need to be aware of it and switch the techniques. In nogi throws the focus goes more to non-slipery control points of behind the elbow, underhook, neck, leg and waist vs. lapel, sleeve, belt and all the other gi bits.
- the time when I spent a whole training session on methods of extracting and using the belt I thought there were better uses of my time. It works in gi comps and can be a consideration in self defense but most time you don't get to take your belt off. Plus I get to keep my pants on.
Ian wrote:I grapple with people who are up to 50kg / 100+lbs heavier than me a couple times a week, and this isn't my experience. With no-gi I can slip out easier and control easier, with gi it's harder. It's doesn't equalise our weight differences at all.
Agree with no-gi it is easier to slip out but I don't agree it is easier to control. The gi is a leveler for smaller opponents as it enables:
1. Smaller hands to grip at points that are not accessible. eg in the swai jiow/sambo jacket you can grip top side on the biscep. A smaller hand gripping a large biscep does not happen from the front. Large monster hands have no problems gripping front on.
2. It allow more grip points which means better chance of playing with balance. e.g you can play with the belt region at almost any point which is not possible in no gi.
3. It amplifys the ability to take balance without having to exert as much effort in the hold. Grip a sleeve and jerk down sets up off balancing. Doing the same in nogi requires a monster grip.
It's the same with gloves - it's easier to slip without them and easier to control the wrists with them.
Ian wrote:You might also ask yourself why so many wrestling styles include clothing of some sort (chidaoba, ringen, schwingen, khapsagay, sumo, khuresh, shuaijiao, ssireum, oil wrestling, pehlwani, pahlevani, glima, gouren, narodno rvanje etc.), if wrestling with clothing is unrealistic, or for training purposes only.
I've asked that question of myself and others. Answers from various sources included:
- it's tradition
- it's leveler against size
- it's better for business as you end up with less grip point bruises
- it helps you become aware of how to use it against someone in clothes
- protects against human sweat
- it's more interesting as there are a lot more techniques available
- can help setup more spectacular throws
BTW - if you're oil wrestling like you highlight you really need something that does not come off. Otherwise cover the children's eyes.
Also I didn't say it was unrealistic or for training only. I said:
Clothes are like any environmental tool. Be aware of it and how they can be applied but don't assume it or overtrain it.
I think this quote helps respond to this.
Ian wrote:That's true, but my comment about fighters who did gi first then no-gi was in response to earlier replies, such as your own, suggesting that there's no place for grabbing clothes on the street.
The problem with people grabbing track pants or boardshorts or tshirts in street fights, and then looking shocked when they realise they don't have any purchase and are now getting pummeled in the face, is not an inherent problem with gi fighting. The problem is those individuals aren't good fighters, and don't have the common sense to realise that trackpants, boardshorts, and tshirts aren't the best things to grab!
Down jackets, leather jackets, suits, jeans, on the other hand, are. And training with the gi makes you attuned to knowing what to grab and what NOT to grab, on a case by case basis.
The only other consideration is that people where grappling without gis for a long time before gis came along. Don't view this as my dismissal of the gi but just a point that there is a lot that can be learnt without a gi and it takes a long time to get good at it. I see gi's an augmented practise for open combat (strikes, throws, locks/submissions). Others I know who compete in the gi space see it as a vital piece of awareness in training which provides a competitive advantage. Different way of thinking.
. The statement is too generalized and false. I can say that I am certain about what I believe because I have first hand experience. I could just say that "holding someone's clothes doesn't need to lead to a fight." If I do that without something to back it up with it becomes a subjective opinion that no one will take notice of because my opinion would be against a wrestling expert. This is a discussion forum, I am entitled to discuss my one POV. but if I have nothing to back up my opinion with, it's IMHO pointless to express an opposing view. Comprende? 
Another thing I think it's odd is to create a thread without reading the answers to the questions. So because I've allready shared a story, I wanted to make a point. So, do you accept my explanation to my last post?