Combat vs. Health

[johnwang]

The " 羅漢观天 (Luo Han Guan Tian) - Lou Han looks at sky" posture training is used to develop the proper body structure for "抱(Bao) - back raising".





Whenever I saw an old person who has the following body posture, I felt like to suggest him/her to do the backward bending posture training daily.

Do you think this backward bending posture training can help old people to:

1. prevent this problem from happening?
2. correct this problem after it has happened?

Your thought?

[Bao]

Some practitioners get the hunchback, some people don't. Probably a lot of it is about genetics and body type.

Backwards bending the back might help a bit.. But I have a feeling that this problem comes from a certain part of the back, that it's about that people tend to not use the scapula area in daily life. Just look at a cat, a lion, or a tiger when they walk. The scapula constantly raises up and down when they move. It comes naturally when you walk on four limbs. But we don't and we tend to completely forget about this part of the body, not moving it at all. It's a pitty that also in CMA people tend to forget about this part of their body. So in this perspective, it's not really about health vs martial arts, but more a problem of how our society shapes how we move and act.

[johnwang]

Similar concept.

[windwalker]

The " 羅漢观天 (Luo Han Guan Tian) - Lou Han looks at sky" posture training is used to develop the proper body structure for "抱(Bao) - back raising".


Do you think this backward bending posture training can help old people to:

1. prevent this problem from happening?
2. correct this problem after it has happened?

Your thought?

you never mentioned what the problem was or what caused it.

For some things exercise might prevent it for others not depends on what the problem is and what
caused it.

caption for the image shown.

Caption: MODEL RELEASED. Curved spine in an 64 year old man with ankylosing spondylitis, a type of arthritis. Ankylosing spondylitis is an inflammatory disease that affects the joints between the spinal vertebrae in the back. The disorder usually begins with pain and stiffness in the lower back and progresses up the spine with increasing immobility. In severe cases, curvature of the spine occurs and the spine may even become completely rigid due to fusion of the vertebrae. The curved spine here, bending back-to-front rather than sideways, is known as kyphosis.

treatment:

In recent years, advances have been made in the treatment of ankylosing spondylitis and related diseases. There is a lot that can be done to relieve the pain and stiffness of the AS and recent studies show that the new biologic medications (TNF-a Inhibitors) can potentially slow or halt the disease progression in some people.

http://www.spondylitis.org/about/as_treat.aspx

[wiesiek]

fusion of the vertebrae is directly connected with bad diet habit / follow natural path of medicine/, mostly milk and diary product.

Two main vessels training /Ren and Du/ are basic yoga exercise,
opening them, for the free qi flow - is the 1st internal direction /hidden or not/ of the healing and martial arts,
so
spine bending, connected with breathing has strong BOTH -healing and MA value;
speakin`so-
MAs are just the healing exercises trained in exxcess

[windwalker]

Ankylosing spondylitis affects men more often than women. Signs and symptoms of ankylosing spondylitis typically begin in early adulthood. Inflammation also can occur in other parts of your body — most commonly, your eyes.

There is no cure for ankylosing spondylitis, but treatments can decrease your pain and lessen your symptoms.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20019766

It would seem that once one gets it, they'ers not much that can be done about it.

There is no cure for AS, although treatments and medications can reduce symptoms and pain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosing_spondylitis

had friend who recently was diagnosed with osteoarthritis, he had practiced MA most if not all his adult life but had to stop due to his condition.

Injury and overuse: Repetitive movements or injuries to joints (such as a fracture, surgery or ligament tears) can lead to osteoarthritis. Some athletes, for example, repeatedly damage joints, tendons and ligaments, which can speed cartilage breakdown. Certain careers that require standing for long periods of time, repetitive bending, heavy lifting or other movements can also make cartilage wear away more quickly. An imbalance or weakness of the muscles supporting a joint can also lead to altered movement and eventual cartilage breakdown in joints

http://www.arthritis.org/about-arthriti ... causes.php

I dont know about other arts, I do know that in some of the arts I had studied the primary focus was on fighting, health was not really a consideration just a by product if any.
In my simi old age, at times I can feel some of the affects in my hands. Thinking back to some of the things I used to train seems kinda dumb now...but understandable then.

only get one body in life, have to take care of it.

[wiesiek]

i have MA early days hands syndrome too
so
as always
prevention/proper training are the key

[yeniseri]

you never mentioned what the problem was or what caused it.

For some things exercise might prevent it for others not depends on what the problem is and what
caused it.

caption for the image shown.

Caption: MODEL RELEASED. Curved spine in an 64 year old man with ankylosing spondylitis, a type of arthritis. Ankylosing spondylitis is an inflammatory disease that affects the joints between the spinal vertebrae in the back. The disorder usually begins with pain and stiffness in the lower back and progresses up the spine with increasing immobility. In severe cases, curvature of the spine occurs and the spine may even become completely rigid due to fusion of the vertebrae. The curved spine here, bending back-to-front rather than sideways, is known as kyphosis.

It makes no difference unless the condition was hereditary! Exercise and physical activity is generalized at the basic level of conditioning so it benefits people to do what they can do based on level of activity. Bad posture and bad diet in themselves aggravates such problems and it does not help if the person is sedentary

[Steve James]

Look, ever hear of a cma person getting cancer, or diabetes, or arthritis? You know those diseases that you hear about, read about and see pictures of people with? You're definitely going to get one, unless, you get taken out by an accident, or you get a disease that you've never heard of, read about or ever imagined.

Don't waste time worrying about it, though. If you're all good today, smile and give yourself a big hug --just don't pat yourself on the back too hard .

[johnwang]

Look, ever hear of a cma person getting cancer, or diabetes, or arthritis?

Not sure about cancer and arthritis but exercise can prevent diabetes.

http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/prevention.html

Research studies have found that moderate weight loss and exercise can prevent or delay type 2 diabetes among adults at high-risk of diabetes. Find out more about the risk factors for type 2 diabetes, what it means to have prediabetes, and what you can do to prevent or delay diabetes. See also EAT RIGHT and BE ACTIVE.

[Steve James]

Exercising is good. People who exercise get diabetes less than those who don't exercise. But, people who exercise get arthritis and heart disease. Children get diseases. It's just life. My point was that people should be thankful for their present well being. It won't stay the same.

[wiesiek]

re:
calcium joint disposal

caused my wife hands deformation and joint locking.
Severe condition diminished after two or three weeks avoiding all together :milk, cheeses etc.
After 3-4 months her hands back to the norm.
This is my personal experience.

personal genetic twist, maybe

[middleway]

Why do we rarely see things like Kyphotic spine in the elderly of hunter gatherer societies? There are a lot of reasons ... from diet, movement frequency, movement complexity etc.

The problem with people exhibiting this spine deformity is that it is often the result of extremely well trained dysfunction. The resulting correction methods will need to put in as much effort to correct it and would revolve around wholehearted lifestyle changes across the board rather than a single exercise. Things like avoiding chairs, sofas, etc, using the floor a lot to rest if you have too, taking care of your head position when you are reading your phone (A HUGE ONE!). All these things would need to be adopted, and for the elderly they just aren't on the cards if we are being honest.

That said we can use these postural examples as warnings and start to base our training around mitigating these problems of old age in the modern world.

In terms of prevention. A good 'movement diet' will prevent things like this IMO (along with an appropriate food diet). A lot of sitting in chairs or 'resting' will absolutely screw you in this regard (as will a lot of turtling the back concaving the chest in Tai Chi!!!). We shouldn't need special exercises to be healthy and naturally strong ...

Katy Bowman's work on this is really interesting.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MOVE-YOUR-DNA-BOWMAN-KATY/dp/0989653943

Worth a listen to the podcasts she has done with Robb Wolf etc

http://robbwolf.com/2014/05/19/episode-224-katy-bowman/

Thanks
Chris.

[GrahamB]

Thanks Middleway - I'd really like to like Katy Bowman, since her ideas are spot on, but I find her so frustrating to listen to - she meanders around without ever getting to the point of anything! Anyway, I haven't heard that podcast - I'll give it a listen.

[middleway]

Agreed! but her writing is really good i think.