Push hands ... legs .. elbows ...body?

[windwalker]

Perhaps XYZ has already been defined, at least in the Yang Shao-Hou curriculum/lineage:

In an interview from China Wushu Magazine (http://goldeneaglemac.com/?p=62) from the mid seventies with Chang Yiu-Chun a student of Yang Shao-Hou (from 1911 until Yang’s death in 1930;

Really enjoyed this interview. Some great commentary with a lot of intrigue & controversy. Not sure if it's all accurate or not but still thought provoking.

A. Firstly he would not recognize the name because it was not called Taijiquan until fairly recently. He would even recognize what is being taught in his name today. Unless he saw the Yang Shao-Hou style

interesting interview

No, only my behind was sore when I hit the floor , I did not feel anything at first but later there was some slight swelling around where he struck me.

Q. And did you eventually learn these techniques.

A. Only when I had been with Yang for many years and even though I was a family member, I had to prove myself to be an honorable person.

Q. What do you mean by an honorable person.

A. By that I mean that I would never go out and use these techniques for the purpose of being boastful or to show off. Yang taught that if we were ever provoked that we should try to play the coward first of all but if that failed then we must act so quickly as to not allow our attackers to know which techniques we were using.

seems kinda the opposite of what many here ask about and practice for.

What happened after Yang Shao-Hou died, the style seemed to disappear.

A. Yes, the few senior students of Yang Shao-Hou decided that it would be best not to teach what we knew to everyone and so we all went our different ways to teach only a selected few students.

Q. How many students did you have?

A. I only taught about seven people what I knew and they in turn did not teach many.

very different way of thinking. no internet back then no utube.

[johnwang]

What should XYZ be if we look at this training path?

form -> PH -> XYZ -> sparring (kick/punch/lock/throw integration)

IMO,

- PH can be used to train how to detect opportunity, set up opportunity, make an entry (entering strategy).
- XYZ is the "partner drill" that should be used to develop finish technique (finish strategy).

You can't develop any MA skill without going through XYZ (partner drills)? If you want to develop your "hip throw", you will need to use your "partner drill" to throw your opponent over your back at least 10,000 time.

[LaoDan]

I realize that many individuals consider san shou to be free sparring, but I am pretty certain that what was being referred to was the choreographed san shou (done to learn the choreography, then sped up, then done out of order):


John, you can see the addition of foot sweeps, elbows, etc. in the applications of the choreographed form. After that, then one could try applying it in free sparring.

[johnwang]

I realize that many individuals consider san shou to be free sparring, but I am pretty certain that what was being referred to was the choreographed san shou (done to learn the choreography, then sped up, then done out of order):


John, you can see the addition of foot sweeps, elbows, etc. in the applications of the choreographed form. After that, then one could try applying it in free sparring.

That training should fit well between PH and sparring.

[dspyrido]

Here's some sticky stuff (and I don't mean exchanging bodily fluids) that goes outside of fixed step parameters. No claims of whether it is right or wrong. Just some examples for this topic.

Some moving drills but still hand to hand


Shoulders and armpits


Pushing hands to head


Push hands then to legs and then to some wrestling moves


Bit more PH to wrestling


Some roushou that goes into throws


More roushou demos


Some Okinawan stuff but its limb on limb


Some WC examples
Chi Sao


Lap Sau


Chi Gerk


Some mixing it all up...