words/sounds in Yang taijiquan practice

[meeks]

my first real kung fu instructor, while I was in my early 20s, placed his open palm on my shoulder as I was sitting on my butt on the floor, legs crossed. With his fingers wide open he then lifted me up off the floor into a standing position in front of 4 other students with only his open palm touching my tshirt at his point of contact at my shoulder. I was a pragmatic atheist with no belief in 'any of the chee bullshit' at the time. According to the other students my feet were about 4 inches off the floor before he placed me onto my feet. What do you think LaoDan ... mass hypnosis from a guy that spoke no English?

This is just 1 of many examples both he and Yang Guotai would demonstrate on various occasions. So while in my earlier days of kungfu training (about 30 years ago) I would have scoffed and said 'placebo effect' from a safe distance of never having experienced it, my direct experience with the occult side of martial arts has made me realize there is much, much more out there than the physical aspect of delivering kinetic force and changed my personal attitude from 'there are no studies to prove' to "I'm going to practise these exercises I've been fortunate enough to have been entrusted with because there's something a lot deeper than I can ever explain going on in this universe"

[LaoDan]

I never said that there are real things that people can do that I have no understanding of or explanations for.

In the case of the sounds, others have pointed out how there seem to be inconsistencies (differences in how the sounds are pronounced, etc; even different sounds depending on the arrangements of the trigrams used!), which, at least in this case, leads me to suspect the mental over the physical as being the driver of possibly real effects.

I remain open to their being real effects associated with the sounds, though in this case I remain skeptical that the actual sounds are the real causes of the effects.

Just something to consider – I’m not trying to prove anything.

[yeniseri]

It is a recent "new millenia' recent re-engineering of faux neo-Daoist jargon in the vein of the alleged heng-ha sounds and way beyond my dunceness.
I am incapable of seeing how it is part of jibehong conditioning and baojiangong type fitness or longevity but if it works for those who makes that claim then let the forces be with them.

I wholeheartedly applaud those who have gained this skill and understanding in their quest!

[wiesiek]

gaining skills...-
isn`t it matter of doing it /the sound/from the dantian?

[D_Glenn]

Here's an article about the sounds in my lineage of Bagua: http://www.qigongfu.com/8HS_Article_web.pdf

.

[windwalker]

my first real kung fu instructor, while I was in my early 20s, placed his open palm on my shoulder as I was sitting on my butt on the floor, legs crossed. With his fingers wide open he then lifted me up off the floor into a standing position in front of 4 other students with only his open palm touching my tshirt at his point of contact at my shoulder. I was a pragmatic atheist with no belief in 'any of the chee bullshit' at the time. According to the other students my feet were about 4 inches off the floor before he placed me onto my feet. What do you think LaoDan ... mass hypnosis from a guy that spoke no English?

This is just 1 of many examples both he and Yang Guotai would demonstrate on various occasions. So while in my earlier days of kungfu training (about 30 years ago) I would have scoffed and said 'placebo effect' from a safe distance of never having experienced it, my direct experience with the occult side of martial arts has made me realize there is much, much more out there than the physical aspect of delivering kinetic force and changed my personal attitude from 'there are no studies to prove' to "I'm going to practise these exercises I've been fortunate enough to have been entrusted with because there's something a lot deeper than I can ever explain going on in this universe"

nice experience.
what makes this "occult" and not just part of the normal extension of theory that many talk about here
but seem to doubt when clips showing examples of it are shown? ie. kong jin ect.

would you say this was different or the same.


Interesting enough, there is a teacher where I have a small group who also makes sounds when he practices,
quite specific ones for different postures as he goes through the form practice. His english is not so good, my chinese is not so good
He said he learned the style from another chinese man in while living in s-america at the time....I'll see if I can find out a little more infor on it.
the style while yang, is also different.

[novamma]

http://polariswushu.net/blog/2015/07/22 ... hing-gong/

[Ron Panunto]

I learned this set from Jou Tsung Wa and Tung Tsai Liang back in the 70's. It was taught with reverse and percentage breathing. I was told it could be done when you couldn't do your regular long taiji form for one reason or another. Also told it was good internal iron shirt training.

[meeks]

what makes this "occult" and not just part of the normal extension of theory that many talk about here
but seem to doubt when clips showing examples of it are shown? ie. kong jin ect.

would you say this was different or the same.

Hi Windwalker - I'm not sure I understand the first 2 lines. Could you please reword this a bit so I can understand the statement(s) better? thanks!

[windwalker]

what makes this "occult" and not just part of the normal extension of theory that many talk about here
but seem to doubt when clips showing examples of it are shown? ie. kong jin ect.

would you say this was different or the same.

Hi Windwalker - I'm not sure I understand the first 2 lines. Could you please reword this a bit so I can understand the statement(s) better? thanks!

pm

[Peacedog]

The sounds based stuff is always interesting. Generally speaking regardless of whose system you use three things have to be done simultaneously to make it work: a sound that is tonal and vibrational, a color and a sensation. All of these details have to be maintained to generate a given effect.

This trifold concentration takes awhile to develop and is frequently the goal of monastic training depending upon the system.

Once you can generate the effect on a basic level two approaches exist: power building with an effect or development of the depth of the experience with this phenomena.

Power building is just that. You work with a given effect over and over until you get better at it.

The depth exercises are much more interesting. You essentially project your consciousness into the effect not unlike astral projection. Once there you have a variety of experiences related to that phenomena not unlike an interactive movie.

This in turn widens the effects you can generate with a given phenomena.

[wayne hansen]

Has anyone here learnt the above set by direct lineage

[AlexanderG]

Good question. I dare hypothesize that just making the right sounds will not do anything for you, there is much more going on under the surface.

[kenneth fish]

My 2 cents (slightly higher in Canada): The use of sounds is obviously not limited to Taiji, and most likely does not originate with Taiji either. When I learned Tibetan meditation practices there were sounds that were integral to different stages and practices. Hung Gar and Fujian White Crane make extensive use of sounds in their internal training (these are just two examples - I believe this is a common practice). One of the Yi Jinjing series that I learned also uses sounds - but I would venture to say that the sounds used in different areas of China vary according to dialect (and yes, it is likely, in my opinion, that the sounds referred to in older texts are more closely approximated by Fujian and Cantonese dialect).

However! (as Irwin Corey was fond of starting his routines) - the sounds in the routines I mentioned above are not "vocalized" so much as produced by different tensions and contractions deep inside the body.

[dspyrido]

I know this topic is found in meditation but how does it relate to combat? The way I understood it is these practices are distinct from the combat aspects and are learnt as part of their own system for health and spiritual purposes.