"BJJ is useless!"

[johnwang]

for those saying they practice taiji, feeling that the others have equal to or more sensitivity "ting jin" really?

In wrestling, you train "抖(Dou) – Shaking". The moment that you feel your opponent tries to make a certain move, you shake him by giving him a quick push on his arm or shoulder. This way you can prevent your opponent from generating power and speed during the initial stage. But it requires you to have the ability to sense your opponent's intention no matter how small it may be.

In Taiji PH, you let your opponent to push you. You then rotate your body, yield, and push back.

Which training method will give you better "Ting Jin"? To prevent a power from generating in the early stage, or to allow the power to be generated and then yield into it afterward? It's much harder to sense a small energy (before it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/10 of a second. It's much easier to sense a much larger energy (after it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/2 second.

Beside the different training methods. If a Taiji guy plays PH 30 minutes and train solo form 30 minutes daily, a wrestler who wrestles 1 hours daily will definitely develop better "Ting Jin" because the double training time that has been invested.

[johnwang]

You couldn't get me on the ground,

Unless you use

- under hook,
- over hook, or
- leading arm jam back arm,

to "disable both of your opponent's arms ability" when you take him down, as long as your opponent has one hand on your body, he can drag you down with him.

[GrahamB]

JiuJitsu saved my life:

http://www.jiujitsutimes.com/air-force- ... d-my-life/

Why would anyone actively not want to know this stuff?

[Taste of Death]

.

[Steve James]

Which training method will give you better "Ting Jin"? To prevent a power from generating in the early stage, or to allow the power to be generated and then yield into it afterward?

Good "ting" is the ability to interpret strength. And, besides, the point would be to allow the power to be generated, and then allow it to become empty --as it must. It's true, however, that there's such a thing as "too late."

[shawnsegler]

Why would anyone actively not want to know this stuff?

Thinking that's the question is a mistake. Of course it would be great to just know, but what is keeping one from it? I'd love to learn it if it was cheaper than it is and convenient and I had the time. For me personally why would I not want to train it? Because I'm happy spending my time learning Gao Bagua which is every bit as much worth knowing.

S

[Wanderingdragon]

It is simply following the direction of force, IMA 101, what is ther to learn?, oh!, chin na, joint locking. Study your art and grappling is there.

[Trip]

JiuJitsu saved my life:

http://www.jiujitsutimes.com/air-force- ... d-my-life/

That man is a hero.

However, the video you linked has been heavily edited and paints an inaccurate picture of how he survived.
The edited video makes his re-telling of the incident sound like jujitsu was the ultimate factor in his survival.

But, in the early videos of him and his friends, he stated he almost was killed.
Because the bad guy had a razor and was slicing his neck and a "just a nick away" from his Carotid Artery.

I am not focused on how other styles might have dealt with an opponent with a hidden razor.
I am saying information that the assailant was about to kill him even though our hero had him in a jujitsu hold,
Should not be ignored or omitted.

He clearly says in his early videos he would have quickly bled out and it would have been over. Except for one thing, his friends.
So, though it is true that he used jujitsu to take the assailant down; it was not jujitsu that saved him.
What saved him were his friends coming to his aid.

That does not diminish his heroic actions in the face of death.
I just think accurate info should be used when talking about how he ultimately survived.

[I-mon]

The real question is: who would win in a fight between Bruce Lee, and a ninja?

[GrandUltimate]

Looks like the ninjas may have won that one

[middleway]

Depends on the ninja. If its Micheal Dunikov ... i think Bruce lee. If its Frank Dux ... thats a harder call.

[Dmitri]

Ninja, because he would get Bruce Lee when he's sound asleep and wouldn't even know what happened. (Unless of course you count the mutant teenagers as valid contestants in this fascinating evaluation. )

[LaoDan]

for those saying they practice taiji, feeling that the others have equal to or more sensitivity "ting jin" really?

In wrestling, you train "抖(Dou) – Shaking". The moment that you feel your opponent tries to make a certain move, you shake him by giving him a quick push on his arm or shoulder. This way you can prevent your opponent from generating power and speed during the initial stage. But it requires you to have the ability to sense your opponent's intention no matter how small it may be.

In Taiji PH, you let your opponent to push you. You then rotate your body, yield, and push back.

Which training method will give you better "Ting Jin"? To prevent a power from generating in the early stage, or to allow the power to be generated and then yield into it afterward? It's much harder to sense a small energy (before it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/10 of a second. It's much easier to sense a much larger energy (after it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/2 second.

Beside the different training methods. If a Taiji guy plays PH 30 minutes and train solo form 30 minutes daily, a wrestler who wrestles 1 hours daily will definitely develop better "Ting Jin" because the double training time that has been invested.

Hi John,

I personally think that disrupting the opponent’s power is (or should be) a part of TJQ training, as well as borrowing force; both of which depend on “Ting Jin”. Some point out the ‘nine pearl bends’ when talking about power disruption, or ‘breaking the chain’ either for disrupting the opponent’s power, or to attack using their structural deficiencies.

When I train TJQ push-hands, I am trying to understand the partner’s energy throughout the entire time that we are touching, not just after they have issued force. I seek out excesses (like in borrowing force) as well as deficiencies (like in exploiting broken chains).

[windwalker]

Which training method will give you better "Ting Jin"? To prevent a power from generating in the early stage, or to allow the power to be generated and then yield into it afterward? It's much harder to sense a small energy (before it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/10 of a second. It's much easier to sense a much larger energy (after it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/2 second.

Beside the different training methods. If a Taiji guy plays PH 30 minutes and train solo form 30 minutes daily, a wrestler who wrestles 1 hours daily will definitely develop better "Ting Jin" because the double training time that has been invested.

the method that allows you to understand and sense intention is the better one IME, you never have to worry about dealing with the power directly.
plying pushhands or wrestling for specified time, develop different things and really have a different mind set with different strategies.
ph is to develop a type of skill to be used, wrestling is a method being used. not the same, others practices may be different.

People, do they know?
Though you may strike the flow of a river
no mark is left on the water

http://www.daito-ryu.org/en/takeda-sokaku.html

[Bao]

In wrestling, you train "抖(Dou) – Shaking". The moment that you feel your opponent tries to make a certain move, you shake him by giving him a quick push on his arm or shoulder. This way you can prevent your opponent from generating power and speed during the initial stage. But it requires you to have the ability to sense your opponent's intention no matter how small it may be.

In Taiji PH, you let your opponent to push you. You then rotate your body, yield, and push back.

Which training method will give you better "Ting Jin"? To prevent a power from generating in the early stage, or to allow the power to be generated and then yield into it afterward? It's much harder to sense a small energy (before it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/10 of a second. It's much easier to sense a much larger energy (after it has been fully generated) and respond to it within 1/2 second.

Beside the different training methods. If a Taiji guy plays PH 30 minutes and train solo form 30 minutes daily, a wrestler who wrestles 1 hours daily will definitely develop better "Ting Jin" because the double training time that has been invested.

I agree, but what you say about SC/wrestling is very much same in tai chi. What you speak about for tai chi is only for drills. Then you can yield or let your opponent push you and then yield. But for free PH and fighting, if you need to yield, it means that your timing is off or your opponent is better than you. You need to adapt to his body even when you don't touch hands and react to the slightest change he makes. This is real tai chi following skill, it's not about being able to take a push on your body.

Li Yaxuan:

Even before physical contact, with a single glance you join contact with the opponent or partner, establishing a firm connection with him. Adherence can begin even at this stage, prior to physical contact. This is important because when you are working in a more intensive competitive or combative mode, if you depend on physical contact to start your adherence, that’s too late and you’re going to be too slow to exploit any advantage of timing or positioning.

What is said above is very much my own experience as well.