Why I'm Back to Taijiquan..

[MaartenSFS]

I dropped TJQ for about a year to focus on Gongli, techniques from various styles, fighting, etc. The thing is, I found that no matter what new technique I learned, it's essence could be found in TJQ. It's when we started to make a form that I realised that we were re-inventing the wheel and decided that it was much easier to practise a stripped-down TJQ than create an entire new art, though what we do looks quite different than the Chen TJQ that we started with. That's fine with me, though, as that's how it worked in the past.

As I've said before, in the end all of these arts are the same and what really matters is that you enjoy your chosen art, so that you train harder. I like the flow of TJQ and the breadth of techniques in the systems. Due to a foot injury I can't do footwork all day like in XY or BGZ, so working on having a strong, if somewhat less mobile, root makes more sense to me.

Also, I have found that it is easier to develop a loose, but powerful body wiith TJQ and the skills developed in Tuishou lead to both direct and indirect improvements in fighting. Training fast and slow, with and without footwork, has helped my game immeasurably.

Finally, I feel that there is a certain depth to the art and enjoy the challenge of pursuing something that most consider unattainable. It will keep my mind sharp and give me something to work on.

[nicklinjm]

OK I'll bite. So if you've gone back to TJQ but it doesn't look like the Chen tjq that you originally practiced, what *does* it look like? Maybe some examples of single moves that you're practicing (xie fei, ye ma fen zong, etc), might help.

[MaartenSFS]

That's a good question. It is basically heavily simplified ChenTJQ with more obvious practicality and a lot more footwork. It contains all of the main moves of Chen and little else. There is heavy XYLHQ and some BG influence.

[MaartenSFS]

That's a good question. It is basically heavily simplified ChenTJQ with more obvious practicality and a lot more footwork. It contains all of the main moves of Chen and little else. There is heavy XYLHQ and some BG influence.

[shawnsegler]

If you want to get good, you should really just fine a good teacher and stick with them until you're actually good and then cross train. This bouncing around and posting about how great and "extra-real" your experiences are seems masturbatory.

It's your life, but Sun Xi Kun recommends the "one style until you're real good at and then crosstrain" way of training and truth be told I don't think I've ever met anyone who was any good who got good from the way you're going about it.

Just sayin.

S

[Bao]

.... It contains all of the main moves of Chen and little else. There is heavy XYLHQ and some BG influence.

So you are not really back to tai chi, but have evolved to some kind of Chen tai chi that is both a sort of simplification and mixture of something else. Which is not a mixture per se, because everything is already basically tai chi? Did I get it right?

[johnwang]

Life is too short. You may start from some TCMA styles, but you will end with "your personal style". You will never have to go back to any TCMA style.

When you drill:

1. hook punch, back fist, upper cut,
2. front kick, roundhouse kick, side kick,
3. shoulder lock, elbow lock,
4. arm drag, single leg, inner hook,

you truly don't care about what style that you are training. All you care about should be

- "enter strategy - how to enter", and
- "finish strategy - how to finish".

[Bao]

Life is too short. You may start from some TCMA styles, but you will end with "your personal style".

But you need to learn styles well before you understand why "style" is not important and what is important for you personally.

[MaartenSFS]

I'm not cross-training. I'm learning how to fight from my master, who cross-trained. When he fights he doesn't care where he learned it. All that we've done is systemise the techniques and training methods that he has found practical.

[MaartenSFS]

.... It contains all of the main moves of Chen and little else. There is heavy XYLHQ and some BG influence.

So you are not really back to tai chi, but have evolved to some kind of Chen tai chi that is both a sort of simplification and mixture of something else. Which is not a mixture per se, because everything is already basically tai chi? Did I get it right?

Exactly.

[MaartenSFS]

Life is too short. You may start from some TCMA styles, but you will end with "your personal style". You will never have to go back to any TCMA style.

When you drill:

1. hook punch, back fist, upper cut,
2. front kick, roundhouse kick, side kick,
3. shoulder lock, elbow lock,
4. arm drag, single leg, inner hook,

you truly don't care about what style that you are training. All you care about should be

- "enter strategy - how to enter", and
- "finish strategy - how to finish".

I totally agree with everything that you said. We all end up with our own personal style. As long as we are effective fighters, who cares? It's all Gongfu. Every single disciple trains and fights differently.

[johnwang]

As long as we are effective fighters, who cares? It's all Gongfu.

That's the right way to look at the TCMA training.

But you need to learn styles well before you understand why "style" is not important and what is important for you personally.

How well do you need to learn a style? That's relative and not absolute. You may spend all your life and still not be able to learn your style "100% well". Just as MaartenSFS have said, "As long as we are effective fighters, who cares? It's all Gongfu."

[willie]

I think that it just depends on what's available to you at the time or in your area and at what cost.
I spent over 10 years reeling silk. I did that because of "the prior form". I was Yang style and one day
I asked a shaolin guy to teach me a advanced form, he said no. I said why? he said that it had no value
without the prior form. So I thought, Wait Yang was Chen, Yang got his power from Chen. So I went
to learn some. The guys had nice form, some martial, but limited. So I had to go find someone who did
have all the martial. It's not easy finding these guys and when you do, it is not cheap. I guess it's all just
part of life learning the way we do. I even said to my teacher "wow I wish I met you along time ago" he
said "no, your better then most, your soft from yang, most guys cant have solid structure and be soft too.
I guess it is just what it is, and meant to be, that it unfolded that way. We are too hard on ourselves and
others. The whole point is, My yang style was o.k.
I know what it is now and I truly hope this info, helps people who are going through the same thing I did.
which is wasting a whole lot of time. It's the bow, Every move compresses the bow. Every strike tightens the
bow on the other side. No place without drive and power, yet maintaining softness, ding and peng as well.

[MaartenSFS]

Styles are just a collection of different training methods, techniques and principles that a master thought would produce an effective fighter. What's important is that we can generate AND use different Jin. Can we generate powerful Hengjin (horizontal power), Caijin ("plucking" power), Chuanjin, Shuaijin, Shujin etc? Do we have effective techniques that utilise these Jin? Do we have the right footwork to let us get in and out? Do we enjoy the process enough to want to train hard? These are the important questions. In the past the person that kicked arse could call what they did anything they wanted.

I thought about the problem of never learning a style 100%, but then remembered that not every boxer is Ali, but still box. All have their own unique style which can be loosely categorised.

Shifu said something profound to me: "If everyone is running in one direction and you change directions you will be number one." So I'm not going to say that what I do is real TJQ. Fuck it. It's Shanzhai TJQ!

[shawnsegler]

Good luck with that. I'll get back to ignoring your threads then.

Cheers.

S