Wudang Origin of Taijiquan

[Serena]

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[willie]

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[Taste of Death]

Yang simplified the art to make it easier to learn, But in doing so, left out an entire array of undisclosed universal concepts.
I believe that in order to fill this void, alternative theories replaced the unspoken universal laws.

The Yangs likely taught an empty version of their art to the guards, who were of a different ethnicity. They kept the concepts in the family art.

[Bao]

Some few misunderstandings. No claims to know exactly when San Zhangfeng was born.

the origin is from military fighting techniques and not daoist sages. you should stop and think about what must have really happened .

What really happened was that Chen Wanting wrote: "In amour with my sword, I fought courageously…survived several great dangers in the blessing from the Imperial… Now at this old age, I have nothing left but the Book of Huangting (the foremost important Taoist neidan classic)."

Fact is that he also learned from the manual of Qi Jiguan. So indeed, in Chen Wanting's arts, there is influence from daoism and teachings from daoist sages.

Chen wanting didn't event anything. He merely put different things together in his own way, just like Yang Luchan did later.
So who invented the modern Tai Chi? Yang is just a good answer as Chen. Nobody invented anything except their own forms.
Also, Yang Luchan already know martial arts and was a good fighter before he entered the Chen village. The Chens didn't teach Yang everything he knew. Just like Chen WT, he took bits and pieces from here and there and put together in his own way.

While there are Yang style masters who are quite good, Chen has much more martial in it.

That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of Yang Schools that focus on Tai Chi solely as a martial art.

Yang simplified the art to make it easier to learn, But in doing so, left out an entire array of undisclosed universal concepts.

That's not true. He created a version for teaching officials and literati. The other things he didn't throw away, but left for family and indoor disciples. Just because 98% of all Yang style schools around is watered down and somewhat stupid doesn't mean that there is no good Yang style around.

Funny that Chen style people think that Yang style is a watered down non-martial tai chi. Just go to the Chen village. All they ever teach is form and no fighting whatsoever except sports wrestling (what they call push hands).

[amor]

So either they are related because they, in truth, came from the same thing, or are different because in truth, their origins and core skills are different -- or they are related/different because human bodies are human bodies and there are a limited number of ways qi can flow in any given meridian.
.

I kind of agree with you on this in that there is only one way to 'change' the body and not 6 ways of 5 ways, just 1 but they can probably be utilized in slightly different ways, all part of mental innovation.

[Overlord]

[windwalker]

Yang simplified the art to make it easier to learn, But in doing so, left out an entire array of undisclosed universal concepts.
I believe that in order to fill this void, alternative theories replaced the unspoken universal laws.

The Yangs likely taught an empty version of their art to the guards, who were of a different ethnicity. They kept the concepts in the family art.

Wu Quanyou was a military officer cadet of Manchu ancestry in the Yellow Banner camp (see Qing Dynasty Military) in the Forbidden City, Beijing and also a hereditary officer of the Imperial Guards Brigade.[3] At that time, Yang Lu-ch'an was the martial arts instructor in the Imperial Guards, teaching t'ai chi ch'uan, and in 1850 Wu Ch'uan-yu became one of his students.[2]

In 1870, Wu Ch'uan-yu was asked to become the senior disciple of Yang Pan-hou, Yang Lu-ch'an's oldest adult son, and an instructor as well to the Manchu military.[1][2] Wu Ch'uan-yu had three primary disciples: his son Wu Chien-ch'uan, Wang Mao Zhai and Guo Fen.[4]

Wu Ch'uan-yu's son, Wu Chien-ch'uan, and grandchildren: grandsons Wu Kung-i and Wu Kung-tsao as well as granddaughter Wu Ying-hua were well known teachers.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu-style_ ... i_ch%27uan


I think those of the Wu style might have something to say about their art being an "empty version" of the yang family art.

[Taste of Death]

While there are Yang style masters who are quite good, Chen has much more martial in it.

That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of Yang Schools that focus on Tai Chi solely as a martial art.

Yang simplified the art to make it easier to learn, But in doing so, left out an entire array of undisclosed universal concepts.

That's not true. He created a version for teaching officials and literati. The other things he didn't throw away, but left for family and indoor disciples. Just because 98% of all Yang style schools around is watered down and somewhat stupid doesn't mean that there is no good Yang style around.

Funny that Chen style people think that Yang style is a watered down non-martial tai chi. Just go to the Chen village. All they ever teach is form and no fighting whatsoever except sports wrestling (what they call push hands).

+1

[wayne hansen]

I agree
Chen all form no fight

[wayne hansen]

Ps Serena you are a breath of fresh air
At last someone saying smart things in an interesting way

[willie]

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[willie]

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[amor]

The Yangs likely taught an empty version of their art to the guards, who were of a different ethnicity. They kept the concepts in the family art
dude, Again, and for the others. Yang was Chen, so if your not seeing parts of Chen in Yang then it was intentionally removed.
so I want you to repeat after me 1000 times.
Yang was Chen
Yang was nothing without Chen
Chen family made Yang great.

I don't really have a dog in this fight although I really do think the form of the Wudang monk posted by Overlord is superb.
I started off with yang but found it lacking especially when it came to the solo work but chen stylists, that posted their work on the net and in books, filled this void imo.
Chen seems to focus more on 'structure' but Yang seems to believe that structure is not so important and Internal Power can make up for lack of structure, after discussions with their various proponents. I'm not sure how internal power can make up for lack of structure since don't you first need structure to have internal power and then you can forget the structure
So either Yang stylists know something which the Chen's don't have or grossly exaggerating in their marketing

[willie]

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[amor]

I don't have any dog in this fight either. I really don't care what no one thinks. I'm the one who has to fight when it's my time.
also, I promised myself years ago that I would leave the arts behind for good and like a stubborn ass I'm still doing it.

The best yang style that I have ever personally felt was like you just described, like fighting a water bed, a river, a tornado.
The manifestation of the mind focused into reality.

Thanks for your post.

Yeah I think they probably diverge at the higher levels but I do believe the initial training is the same. How each style utilizes the connected body along with absorbing/projection, hard/soft IP etc. together with further neigong work probably influences the different styles we know of today.

Dont give up man, keep going as long as your healthy. Ive been there too on giving up we'll thank ourselves when we're old when everyone else is losing their vitality but we will be less worse off , providing we get past this eating bitter stage.