LHPF - training methodology?

[Wanderingdragon]

Point made, you have yet to answer my question, it seems clear, you cannot explain the words you copy in physical terms.

[Yeung]

I try to look up the reference for 身带手动 in quotes and only find 7 references from Baguaquan, Yiquan, and Wing Chun. This term in Chinese means torso directed hand movement. If that is what you heard and understand then I can explain how that can be done in the starting form of LHBF.

[suckinlhbf]

I appreciate you are trying to help with your study and experience. I am quite sure that WD has heard and understand it but not doing in this approach. Move with whole body, start with whole body, and end with whole body are what LHBF people do when they have received honest transmission.
A basic training of LHBF is to stand in front of a wall, and draw a circle on the wall with the index and middle fingers stuck out. It starts with drawing with the hand, then together with the shoulder, then with the hip, then with the whole body. The wooden ball training goes with the same concept. And, it is difficult to control the wooden ball on a flat wooden table with an increasing speed as the ball is so slippery on the table. So you can see the concept is not the same as torso directed hand movement. However, most of the clips on youtube are doing and even teaching with the torso approach.
Sorry WD. I step in trying not to have another confusion likes LHBF is a combination of Taiji, Baqua, and Xingyi happened which basically kill the art.

[Wanderingdragon]

Thanks SUCK, but I was trying to hear someone explain the workings of such movement from inside to out, to explain in this manner shows that you absolutely understand what is going on. As you said it is the only way to move in LHPF, one thing move everything moves, sounds simple but not. It is the workings of the nine joints, it is the essence of LHPF, but to know how is in the ability to say it, it's the movement of dragons. I chose the opening move, to be explained because if you do not get that right your your whole form will follow in the wrong manner. Drawing circles is beginning, but one cannot play the ball without knowing. Again the arms do not raise themselves, the body raises the arms, but knowing how that happens is in more than just saying " the torso moves the hand ", there is an actual physical method/process,that allows the body to raise the arms while having total relaxation, i.e. Dont raise the shoulders. I will leave you guys to it ,as I am clear as to what has been and is being offered here

[suckinlhbf]

So we better pack up and go.

[Yeung]

Kneading ball exercise is well documented in other arts, and the concept of one move all move is well documented in Taijiquan classics. You should identify the uniqueness of LHBF in developing a new type of Internal Martial Arts. Connecting 4 season health exercise of Chen Tuan to the 66 forms might be a viable option.

[suckinlhbf]

You should identify the uniqueness of LHBF in developing a new type of Internal Martial Arts. Connecting 4 season health exercise of Chen Tuan to the 66 forms might be a viable option.

Many thanks. Not long ago, a old gent claimed himself as Chen Yiren said the same thing to me while we were walking along Des Voeux Road West, and I said I am not interested in LHBF anymore. The vision was so real. Now a Quebec guy is doing this - see 2016 Version LHBF. The old gent should be very satisfy.

[Yeung]

An analysis of the ascending arms without elevating the shoulders in the starting form of LHBF:

1. Standing passively in shoulder width
2. Relaxing the chest
3. Lowering the stance and stretching the sub-occipital muscles to stretch the spine between Bai Hui GV20 and Chang Qiang GV1
4. Depressing the shoulder to raise the arms
5. Rotating the arms inward and stretching forward to lift and bend the arms
6. Stretching the armpit muscles to lift the arms
7. Stretching the abdominal muscles to lift the arms
8. Diaphragmatic breathing

Movements should be learned individually then coordinate to move together. The training objective should be maximizing congenital strength.

Examinations:

1. Tingling sensation of the arms in motion
2. Able to transfer external downward pressure to the Yong quan Ki1, left and right
3. Exhale induced compression between the Qi Hai CV6 and Ming Men GV4
4. Upward strength can be tested
5. Springiness can be tested

[Wanderingdragon]

Nice, now there is some methodology that will help inquiring minds

[Wanderingdragon]

It's clear you have studied and have some understanding of internal medicine, but it is also clear you do not understand the internal workings of LHPF.

[Yeung]

It seems to me that LHBF is a unique development but it does not have any unique feature to differentiate itself from other martial arts.

[Strange]

yes, we do not go around telling ppl to beware of their prostate gland
in this way we are very unique

[Wanderingdragon]

[quote="Yeung"]It seems to me that LHBF is a unique development but it does not have any unique feature to differentiate itself from other martial arts.[/quote]


Because you do t understand its methods you could not possibly understand or recognize its unique features.

[Wanderingdragon]

I thank you for this conversation, as is my goal to learn something new everyday, since this conversation I have found that the work done in just the opening and closing, engages zero arm strength other than that of structural integrity, to raise and to lower, follows only the structure. Because of this focus, I have found my form even more sound as I recognize and realize the nature of the forces involved. I have found , in western vernacular, a new understanding of the 60s hip term, to " hang loose"

[Yeung]

My analysis is using pure congenital strength or without use any brute force. And it comes to my notice that most practitioners use the mixed mode of stretching and contracting at the same time. The techniques of waving the opponent away using the ascending movement of the opening form of LHBF as demonstrated by Hui Kit Wah and Kam Tung in Youtub can be either mode. This is why I included some suggestions to examine this movement as some techniques are concealed. In the testing of strength, springiness, and neutralization, external force and intention also needed to consider. There are also techniques in interpreting the opponent which developed in contacts or two person sets. Thus the same movement can be differentiated by various means and intensities. There are many alchemist claims to produce power but that can be tested as well, and most cases are just using brute force after a long period of training. This is an IMA forum and the concern should be the fighting power of IMA and not some empty talk of alchemist techniques. The dialectical method is a way to verify various practices and exchange of experiences.