LHPF - training methodology?

[Yeung]

Both Zhang Changxin and Zhao Daoxin were famous students of Wu YiHui does anyone have info on there approach to Liuhebafa? not famous for methods and theory just fighting?.

Both Zhang Changxin and Zhao Daoxi were good fighters before following Wang Xiangzhai, and then Wu Yihui. So, it will be difficult to sort out their techniques unless you are well versed in Taijiquan, Xingyiquan (Xinyiliuhe) and Baguaquan. Zhang Changxin also learnt boxing as well.

[Yeung]

One would have a valid comment after involving in it like Jiang Rongqiao did. 康戈武 didn't learn from his grand master.

Yeung
Have you even talked to the son of WuYiHui about his father's kungfu? BTW, he was a little kid when his father passed away.

Wu Yinghua published a book on the National Academy of Martial Arts which his father taught for a year or two. According to Lung Wah a student of Chen Yiren, Wu Yihui was very sad because his son was sent away to a little town in Anhui 安徽。I have contacted him and brought a number of this book from him some years ago but never got around to ask his age. In any case he is doing well in promoting his father's art and forming the lhbf International Association supported by his father's grand students, etc. His videos are available in v.youku.com.

[Yeung]

our training methodology is much the same as taichi

Choi sifu even said he does his taiji, lama in LHBF way. Correct me if it is not true. Taichi trains DaiTien and LHBF focuses on six points. You can see from the 1st generation's performance.

Taijiquan and Yiquan emphasized on ba mian zhi cheng 八面支撑 (stretching to eight sides)，what do you mean by focuses on six points?

[Wanderingdragon]

I will relay my path, which has helped gain quite some understanding, as I said it begins with the stepping

https://youtu.be/LP7YpcwogIE

From which we learn the path from which all force is generated, the stepping introduces us to solid and complete and unified structure, it gives us an awareness of the center from where all movement begins.

https://youtu.be/Zo4dvvOQdzU

Here we are shown the most basic understanding, how force is generated from the center, to touch the hand is to touch the foot and all in between it is the connection that is the communication, without a complete connection of all parts the message cannot be passed and tension arises. Here like spring to touch the top and the bottom pushes back. I have likened it to a bottle of water, when tapped the ripples go straight to the center to return continually, until the agitation is stilled, this IMO, is the basis essence of sensitivity. This is fighting, and the use of any technique in the Arsenal in the foundational form Zhu Ji, to still any agitation. From this basic understanding all else springs.

[Wanderingdragon]

I too would like to know about the six points, I am not aware of these.

[suckinlhbf]

The six points are Bai Hui, Ming Men, Qihai, Yong quan, and Changqiang. These are the points to hold on when doing the form. Together with linking/connecting of the five hearts and alignment of the nine joints give a total balance for the body, and the body with the environment. Too much to handle? Try the subconscious mind.

[Wanderingdragon]

Still not really clear in the six points, the five positions you mentioned, IMO, are all developed and maintained through awareness in posture and focus on circulation. Personally I try to keep all explanations as close to laymens terms as possible. Understanding circulation and accupoints , let alone explaining them, is beyond my pay grade.

[suckinlhbf]

The six points are on posture, five hearts on intention, and nine joints on body mechanism.

[Wanderingdragon]

" Training Methodology " , can you share some methods used to train the concepts you are conveying.

[Yeung]

The six points are Bai Hui, Ming Men, Qihai, Yong quan, and Changqiang. These are the points to hold on when doing the form. Together with linking/connecting of the five hearts and alignment of the nine joints give a total balance for the body, and the body with the environment. Too much to handle? Try the subconscious mind.

My conjecture on支撑八面 zhi cheng ba mian (stretching to eight sides) from打手要言 Essentials of Playing Hands, The Taijiquan Classics, as follows:

Add Laogong 劳宫Pc8 to the suggested 6 points and you will have the following pairs:

Bai Hui百会GV20 - Changqiang长强GV1
Qihai气海CV6 - Ming Men命门GV4
Laogong 劳宫Pc8, left and right
Yong quan涌泉Ki1, left and right

Five hearts should be five centres:

Centre of the head: Bai Hui百会20GV
Centres of the palms: Laogong 劳宫Pc8, left and right
Centres of the soles: Yong quan涌泉Ki1, left and right

Thus the torso, arms and legs or the 15 joints are connected together to move simultaneously.

Apart from the relationship between Qihai and Mingmen the others are very straight forward.

[Yeung]

Both Zhang Changxin and Zhao Daoxin were famous students of Wu YiHui does anyone have info on there approach to Liuhebafa? not famous for methods and theory just fighting?.

Both Zhang Changxin and Zhao Daoxi were good fighters before following Wang Xiangzhai, and then Wu Yihui. So, it will be difficult to sort out their techniques unless you are well versed in Taijiquan, Xingyiquan (Xinyiliuhe) and Baguaquan. Zhang Changxin also learnt boxing as well.

Not much is known about Zhao Daoxin 赵道新 (1908-1990) but the Hong Kong Yiquan Society has published his writing in its book entitled Yiquan huizong 意拳汇综 (collection of Yiquan, 1994). I think C S Tang included a translation of Zhao's writing in his book entitled "The Complete Book of Yiquan". His methodology should be of interest to practitioners.

[suckinlhbf]

Bai Hui is at the top of the body, Yong Quan of the soles is the contact point to the ground (some may use the heel), Qihai is the Dantian people always refer to, Changquan is at the bottom of the body trunk, and Ming men is the middle of the whole body from the back. Say in "Hun Yuan Zhang", we have the Bai Hui to the sky, YongQuan on the ground, Qihai, Mingmen and Changquan together at the center of the whole body. And it is a straight line from the top through the middle to the ground. We put Qihai, mingmen and Changquan together as the center is because we need the whole body breathing (embryo breathing), and it is the starting part to get the breathing. All the bones align to get the whole body is described as nine joints. Inhale gets the energy to the center, and exhale fills them up between BaiHui and YongQuan so it projects through the hands to outside. Zhang is one of the training to start with, and then get the zhang into the form like doing zhang throughout the form. The six points are all on the body trunk and they are the primary. Two hands are the secondary.
Two middle finger tip are two of the hearts/centers. It is the point to lead and emit energy and also the transition point of Yin/Yang. Two heels are another two. They are the contact point with the ground for rebound. Bai Hui is one to get the center and balance of the whole body.
The training methodology is to start with strengthening the tendons of the whole body, so it can open the bones and strengthen the fascia. Then do the zhangs with proper intention to get it deeper into the body. Put the zhangs into the form to polish the movements and powers for actions.

[suckinlhbf]

Add Laogong 劳宫Pc8 to the suggested 6 points and you will have the following pairs:

Bai Hui百会GV20 - Changqiang长强GV1
Qihai气海CV6 - Ming Men命门GV4
Laogong 劳宫Pc8, left and right
Yong quan涌泉Ki1, left and right

Five hearts should be five centres:

Centre of the head: Bai Hui百会20GV
Centres of the palms: Laogong 劳宫Pc8, left and right
Centres of the soles: Yong quan涌泉Ki1, left and right

Accupoints are sometime used to help explain the concept but not necessary the same. Medicine, Qigong, and Martial Arts may be related in some ways but they are different.

the others are very straight forward

Straight forward? I am suck.

[vagabond]

Side note, can anyone point me towards the music in the first video posted?

[Strange]

thanks for sharing
all above knowledge are surely advance level
i would just like to add whether 5 direction or 8, the actual requirement is omni-directional
yes for sure, there are criteria for the practitioner as road signs
but it is important to take care not to lose the "natural"
if become unnatural it goes against the dao, this may become skill not able to manifest.
then would be counter productive