LHPF - training methodology?

[Wanderingdragon]

Comes to mind again, knowing why you do what you do, would lead to an understanding of how this art generates great power. IMO it has less to do with previous skills, and more to do with current understanding and continued study and practice.

[suckinlhbf]

knowing why you do what you do

We won't know enough to know why we do what we do. In my path, I would think I knew something and found out I was not. It repeats and repeats so I am not dare to say I know things. I am suck.

it has less to do with previous skills, and more to do with current understanding and continued study and practice

Most of those with great skill and power come with a solid background. I have seen a difference with those only do LHBF. So it leaves me wondering. Some of those high level people forget what and how they have trained on the basic. We take stepping as the basic training. Is there something should be done before having a fruitful training on stepping? And, I am also wondering how to do a correct stepping. Is pushing the whole body forward a correct stepping? Where is the engine for the stepping? As Yeung said, how to verify in terms of theory and practice?

[Wanderingdragon]

I would think that ones stepping would bare fruit after time if they understand why they are doing it, and have had quality guidance. Knowing how the body moves is essential, knowing true body machanics is a lesson in comfort, if there is not smooth breath, breathing in the too high or low, if we are not aware of principles being broken in our efforts, these are things of nature, we will know the tension and should correct it. You are correct, if a student does not catch on, it is by his own lacking, if correct understanding is not instilled one will never reach adept skill, no matter the practice and commitment. Humility is a matter of respect, it is demonstrated not by self denigration, but by making a sincere effort by practicing what has been taught by our teachers. I would say that to say I am suck, or lack skill, if I do not think this is true would be untrue insincere, there is no way I could believe that after years of training, in comparison to my teacher I am surely low level, and I pay honor to him by working hard to learn something new every day, and in knowing that any question that may arise he can help to understand, over time, if you have learned by honest and true instruction, the art will teach you independently. This is the reality of skill in any art, one will have his eyes opened every day. You are also correct in knowing that no one will learn to fight if they are not taught to fight, this is the bane of much TCMA today, what you must bring to the table is basic knowledge of hitting.

[Strange]

The problem with your quote:
走避开合顺 翻腾定化粘
搬扣劈搂撑 截拿崩推缠
from Chen Yiren's second book on LHBF is not unique, and one can find them in other martial arts as well. This made it interesting to look at them in terms of theory and practice.

i am not a martial arts scholar.
but i have not seen "定" in other types martial arts
if you have, please share, it would be good to know

[Strange]

Your questions are interesting, but Lung Wah's concern was how come Chen Yiren was so good in terms of speed and power.

zhan zhuang

[suckinlhbf]

Strange, it will be good to have Yeung introduce himself in a more detailed manner. He may be related in some way to our lineage.

[Strange]

somehow i do not think so
but no harm you ask him

[suckinlhbf]

Yeung, can you and will you?

[Wanderingdragon]

An excerpt from an interview given by Wail Lun Choi in 1996, gives an idea of the importance of knowing why we do what we do.


"The main reason that internal styles around the world (not only here) emphasize the health aspects is that the practitioners lack the ability to generate power and employ the sensitivity needed in a real fighting situation. They do not understand how body mechanics are utilized to achieve natural power. The principles of leverage and proper breathing must first be understood and trained. These ideas are applicable, not only in martial arts, but in all human activities. Take the sport of basketball. It matters when you inhale and when you exhale if you are shooting a basket. If you inhale or exhale at the wrong moment, you will instantly feel how unnatural and awkward it is. There is a natural order in which breathing either helps or hinders your action. The action itself dictates how the breath is used. It is my hope that I can convey to the public the importance of fully understanding the principles of these arts and to begin to move away from the mysticism and secrecy that have stood in the way for so long. It saddens me to see so many enthusiastic people who practice diligently for years and years and never improve their skills. In order to secure the future of the arts, the concepts and principles that made the arts what they were must be re-introduced as the only foundation on which to build a solid base. Not as some arbitrary set of rules, but proven as being logical and effective and based on sound scientific theory of physiology and physics.

It must be understood that without precise body movement and proper breathing, an extreme amount of energy is wasted as the body attempts to correct itself naturally. When the body moves in unison, you expend a single amount of energy. If movement become disjointed, however, (for example, the upper part moves before the legs), the two must then compensate for one another as the body struggles to come into balance. The more segmented the body components become, the more aggravated this process becomes.

This is what the classics are referring to when they say "one thing moves, everything moves; one thing stops, everything stops" It not only saves energy, but provides expansive speed and power."

[Strange]

it may be possible that we are discussing a topic in which the language we use fail us.

for example:
is it good to do this?
the next logical question would be:
at which time point are you talking about with reference to what your opponent is doing?
in fight condition, the correct moment for application may pass in milliseconds
one it is right and the next moment it could be very wrong.

same thing for knowing and knowledge
at this time it may be correct; at another time it may be completely wrong

just my thinking fwiw

[Yeung]

The problem with your quote:
走避开合顺 翻腾定化粘
搬扣劈搂撑 截拿崩推缠
from Chen Yiren's second book on LHBF is not unique, and one can find them in other martial arts as well. This made it interesting to look at them in terms of theory and practice.

i am not a martial arts scholar.
but i have not seen "定" in other types martial arts
if you have, please share, it would be good to know

十三势者：掤 、捋、挤、按、采 、挒 、肘、靠，进、退、顾、盼、定。

[Yeung]

Strange, it will be good to have Yeung introduce himself in a more detailed manner. He may be related in some way to our lineage.

I met Lung Wah when I was coaching the Taiji pushing hand team of the Hong Kong Chinwoo Athletic Association in 1989 and he was running a hotpot restaurant nearby. And we sort of became very good friends. I have no lineage to LHBF or Hop Gar, except the details provided by him and the available materials. Maybe this is why I can take a more objective approach to study LHBF. Kam Tung was teaching in Chinwoo for a while as well.

[Yeung]

skeptical about the transition of power from the 66 forms to the other routines

Yeung, the power of Lung Wah and Choi Wai Lun is huge. Would it be from their lama training or 66 forms?

I have never meet Choi Wai Lun, but Lung Wah and maybe Wan Tin Hung whom you know did condition their knuckles for practical fighting purpose. They can swing and strike with huge speed and power by simply opening up their joints to the extreme or stretching to the extreme range of motion. I think LHBF has improved their fighting power.

[Drake]

skeptical about the transition of power from the 66 forms to the other routines

Yeung, the power of Lung Wah and Choi Wai Lun is huge. Would it be from their lama training or 66 forms?

I have never meet Choi Wai Lun, but Lung Wah and maybe Wan Tin Hung whom you know did condition their knuckles for practical fighting purpose. They can swing and strike with huge speed and power by simply opening up their joints to the extreme or stretching to the extreme range of motion. I think LHBF has improved their fighting power.

Choi sifu's power comes from his unification/mechanics. Not some other style. With tournament/low level/normal/untrained folk he may have used more of a Lama approach in order to make an impression and finish an opponent off in spectacular fashion, but his power was from his understanding of how his body works. How physics are applied. How to train, and simply not just "practice". It's as simple, and as complex as that.

[Strange]

The problem with your quote:
走避开合顺 翻腾定化粘
搬扣劈搂撑 截拿崩推缠
from Chen Yiren's second book on LHBF is not unique, and one can find them in other martial arts as well. This made it interesting to look at them in terms of theory and practice.

i am not a martial arts scholar.
but i have not seen "定" in other types martial arts
if you have, please share, it would be good to know

十三势者：掤 、捋、挤、按、采 、挒 、肘、靠，进、退、顾、盼、定。

ok
is this from taiji?
can you share what is the meaning of ding in taiji?