is all neijia same principle?same family?

[MaartenSFS]

They will say: "太极无手无形！"

Then you can kill them with one punch.

[MaartenSFS]

Nice post, Subitai.

Totally agree with the "graduate level" thing when it's taught by most people. The system that I've created with my master doesn't focus on forms but on building combat ability. A student of mine from Germany trained his balls off for a half a year and is leaving China tomorrow. By learning my system he went from nothing to somebody that should be able to handle himself in most situations. I'm proud of him! He's even got a little bit of internal power going on! It's a shame that he couldn't stay longer, but it's better to be able to fight than to have internal power. If he keeps training what I taught him he should be able to work it out himself. It's nothing mystical, just a dedication to hard work. Best of all, it looks like CMA!

What I most appreciate about coming to China to learn Gongfu is not that I have become a better fighter than anyone in the West, but that I have learned something equally (at the very least) effective that is totally different than 99% of what I've seen in the West and, by the way, also had a great time adventuring and learned fluent Chinese!

[AL2016]

chimerical

I don't say jin and djinn are the same

But sometime internal act that concentrate to be empty

Like empty mind in Buddhism
Or empty body in neijia martial art provok the intervention

[AL2016]

Of jinns that help you to become faster or stronger

Sometime some people make devil pact and have somme djinn devil's helping them to be genius (jinn or genius same word) in music ,art, writing
Because jinn are in an mega parallel world that is very fast and quick like our world compare to human mental handicapped world

[Doc Stier]

Of jinns that help you to become faster or stronger

Sometime some people make devil pact and have somme djinn devil's helping them to be genius (jinn or genius same word) in music ,art, writing
Because jinn are in an mega parallel world that is very fast and quick like our world compare to human mental handicapped world

That's probably why they claim the Devil made them do it when they get busted by the cops. LOL

[origami_itto]

Is a Dao the same as a Kwan Dao or double Sabre?

Yes, but no.

[Yuen-Ming]

XY, BG and TJQ became some sort of family before the Nanjing Institute, actually when the first Martial Academia was founded in Tianjin (the Warriors Society 武士會). From its history one can understand that this brotherhood was not particularly based on 'sharing certain principles' but more on the actual friendship of its founders who - by pure chance - were bearer of those particular styles.

There are no "internal/external" styles in China, there are only "internal/external" practices/principles and these are present in ALL styles in different proportions, depending on the style and on the teacher.

In the old days, nobody would give a damn about 'internal/external'. People were into Martial Arts to survive a very harsh society so they would just treasure anything that they would stumble upon that was 'working'. Some people would therefore practice various 'things' (styles) simply because, in their search for effectiveness, they may find it in various teachers. But history is full of people with huge fighting skills who were raised bread and butter with ONE single curriculum, the Yang family of TJQ is but one example.

YM

[Steve James]

One of my old teachers was fond of saying that "all Chinese martial arts are children of the same mother."

[Yuen-Ming]

論拳術內家外家之別
DISCUSSING DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE INTERNAL & EXTERNAL SCHOOLS OF MARTIAL ARTS
孫祿堂
by Sun Lutang
[1929]

今之談拳術者，每云有內家外家之分。或稱少林為外家，武當為內家，在道為內家；或以在釋為外家，其實皆皮相之見也。名則有少林、武當之分，實則無內家外家之別。少林，寺也；武當，山也；拳以地名，並無軒輊。至竟言少林而不言武當者亦自有故。按少林寺之拳，門類甚多，名目亦廣，輾轉相傳，耳熟能詳。武當派則不然，練者既少，社會上且有不知武當屬於何省者，非余之過言也。浙之張松溪非武當之嫡傳乎？至今浙人士承張之緒者，何以未之前聞也？近十年來，人始稍稍知武當之可貴矣。少林、武當之一隱一現者其故在此。安得遽分內外耶！
或謂拳術既無內外之分，何以形勢有剛柔之判？不知一則自柔練而致剛，一則自剛練而致柔，剛柔雖分，成功則一。夫武術以和為用，和之中知勇備焉。
余練拳術亦數十年矣。初亦蒙世俗之見，每日積氣於丹田，小腹堅硬如石，鼓動腹內之氣，能仆人於尋丈外，行止坐臥，無時不然。自謂積氣下沉，庶幾得拳中之內勁矣。彼不能沉氣於丹田小腹者，皆外家也。一日，山西宋世榮前輩，以函來約，余因袱被往晉。
寒暄之後，因問內外之判，宋先生曰：「呼吸有內外之分，拳術無內外之別。善養氣者即內家，不善養氣者即外家。故善養浩然之氣一語，實道破內家之奧義。拳術之功用，以動而求靜，坐功之作用，由靜而求動。其實動中靜，靜中動，本係一體，不可歧而二之。由是言之，所謂靜極而動，動極而靜，動靜即係相生，若以為有內外之分，豈不失之毫厘，差以千里。我所云呼吸有內外者，先求其通而已。通與不通，於何分之？彼未知練拳與初練拳者，其呼吸往往至中部而止，仍行返回，氣浮於上，是謂之呼吸不通。極其蔽則血氣用事，好勇鬥狠，實火氣太剛過燥之故也。若呼吸練至下行，直達丹田，久而久之，心腎相交，水火既濟，火氣不致炎上，呼吸可以自然，不致中部而返。如此方謂之內外相通，上下相通，氣自和順，故呼吸能達下部。氣本一也，誤以為兩個，其弊亦與不通等。子輿氏曰：『求其放心，放心收而後道心生。』亦即道家收視返聽之理。」
余曰：「然則鄙人可謂得拳中之內勁乎？蓋氣已下沉，小腹亦堅硬如石矣。」
宗先生曰：「否！否！汝雖氣通小腹，若不化堅，終必為累，非上乘也。」余又問何以化之？
先生曰：「有若無，實若虛。腹之堅，非真道也。孟子言：『由仁義行，非仁義行也』。《中庸》極論『中和』之功用。須知古人所言，皆有體用。拳術中亦重中和，亦重仁義。若不明此理，即練至捷如飛鳥，力舉千鈞，不過匹夫之勇，總不離夫外家。若練至中和，善講仁義，動則以禮，見義必為，其人雖無百斤之力，即可謂之內家。迨養氣功深，貫內外，評有無，至大至剛，直養無害，無處不有，無時不然，卷之放之，用廣體微。昔人云『物物一太極，物物一陰陽。』吾人本具天地中和之氣，非一太極乎。《易經》云：『近取諸身，遠取諸物。』心在內而理周乎物，物在外而理具於心，內外一理而已矣。」
余敬聆之下，始知拳道即天道，天道即人道。又知拳之形勢名稱雖異，而理則一。向之以為有內外之分者，實所見之不透，認理之未明也。
由是推之，言語要和平，動作要自然。吾人立身涉世，處處皆是誠中形外，拳術何獨不然。試觀古來名將，如關壯繆、岳忠武等，皆以識春秋大義，說禮樂而敦詩書，故千秋後使人生敬仰崇拜之心。若田開強，古冶子輩，不過得一勇士之名而已。蓋一則內外一致，表裡精粗無不到，一則客氣乘之，自喪其所守，良可慨也。
宋先生又云：「拳術可以變化人之氣質。」余自審尚未能見身體力行，有負前輩之教訓。今值江蘇省國術館有十八年度年刊之發行，余服務館中，亦即兩載，才識淺陋，尸位貽譏，故以聞之前人者略一言之，以志吾愧。

Those who discuss martial arts nowadays always divide them into internal and external. Some say that Shaolin styles are external and Wudang styles are internal, or that Daoist styles are internal and Buddhist styles are external. Actually all of these judgments are superficial. When styles are categorized as either Shaolin or Wudang, there is really no distinction being made between internal or external. Shaolin is a temple. Wudang is a mountain. When boxing arts are named after places, there is no indication at all of whether they are good or bad. When all is said and done, to label something Shaolin instead of Wudang is just as good as otherwise.

Regarding the Shaolin Temple boxing arts, there are a great many styles and the names of their contents are extensive, having been handed down through many generations and repeated over and over again in detail. This is not the case for the Wudang arts, which have been practiced by so few that the highest members of its society do not even know for sure which province the Wudang arts started in, and no, I am not exaggerating the matter. Was not Zhang Songxi of Zhejiang a disciple of the Wudang arts? Then why is it to this day that the people of Zhejiang have never heard of him? It is only in recent decades that people have begun to somewhat understand the value of the Wudang arts. The reason for this situation with Shaolin and Wudang is that one school is on display while the other is obscure. How then can they so easily be put into classifications of internal and external?

Some say that if boxing arts are not divided into internal and external, their techniques could not be discerned as being hard or soft. It is not understood that one [internal] trains to go from softness to hardness and the other [external] trains to go from hardness to softness, and that although hardness and softness are distinct, the achievement in either direction is the same. When martial arts make use of harmony in order to function, it is from a condition of harmoniousness that fighting prowess is developed.

I have practiced boxing arts for several decades. In the beginning, I too accepted common views. Every day I accumulated energy into my elixir field until my lower abdomen became as hard as a rock. When I roused the energy in my abdomen, I could throw an opponent some eight or ten feet away. Whether walking, standing, sitting, or lying down, at any time it was thus. I thought that by accumulating energy through sinking it down, I would likely attain the art’s internal power, and that those who were unable to sink energy to their lower abdomens were all of the external school.

One day, I sent Song Shirong of Shanxi a letter requesting a visit to him since I would be visiting Shanxi. After exchanging conventional greetings, I asked about the distinction between internal and external.
Song said: “Breathing is divided into internal and external, but in boxing arts there’s no distinction between internal and external. If you are good at nurturing energy, then it’s internal. If you’re not good at nurturing energy, then it’s external. Consider the phrase [Mengzi, chapter 2a] “good at nurturing one’s noble energy”. Surely it reveals the deeper meaning of the internal school. When practicing boxing arts, seek stillness through movement. In meditation arts, seek movement through stillness. Truly there is stillness within movement and movement within stillness, because basically they represent a single essence that cannot be branched off into two. Building on this point, when stillness is at its peak, there is movement, and when movement is at its peak, there is stillness, because movement and stillness are so connected that they generate each other. If movement and stillness were used to make distinction between internal and external, how would this not be a case of miscalculating by an inch and being off by a thousand miles?

“My opinion is that there are internal and external types of breathing. First seek for the breath to be fully getting through. The distinction is whether or not the breath is getting through. Those who have never practiced boxing arts or are just beginning to, their breathing usually goes no lower than mid-torso before it goes back up, and so their energy ends up floating upward. This is called ‘hindered breathing’. When the breath is suppressed to an extreme degree, the temperament is affected, and that person develops a combative personality. Such a level of internal fire burns them up until they are scorched.

“If the breath is trained to move downward and go directly to the elixir field, then in the course of time, the heart [the peak active organ] and kidneys [the peak passive organ] will be cooperating. Water and fire will be in a state of mutual benefit [as in hexagram 63 (made of water ☵ on top of fire ☲)], keeping internal fire from burning upward. Breathing can thus be natural and not get turned around mid-torso. In this way, the body can be said to be connected inside and out, upper body and lower, energy will flow smoothly, and the breath can get through to the lower torso. But there’s basically only one kind of energy and it’s a mistake to think there are two. The problem is when it is kept from getting through. Ziyu said: ‘Seek for your lost mind. Once you have found it, your Daoist mind is born.’ [This seems to be a paraphrasing from Mengzi, chapter 6a: ‘The study of the Way is nothing more than the quest for your lost mind.’] This describes the Daoist principle of watching and listening inwardly.”

I said: “All that being the case, can I say I’ve obtained the internal power of boxing arts? My energy has sunk down and my lower abdomen is hard as a rock.”
Song said: “Oh, no no no. Even though energy might be getting through to your lower abdomen, if it doesn’t transform that hardness, it’ll eventually just make you feel overworked, and that isn’t the highest level.”
I then asked: “So how does such a transformation happen?”
Song said: “By way of something seeming like nothing, of fullness seeming like emptiness. If there is hardness in the abdomen, it is not the authentic method. Mengzi said [Mengzi, chapter 4b]: ‘As his [Emperor Shun’s] actions already came from compassion and justice, he did not need to act in a way that would make him become compassionate or just.’ This is the ‘centered harmoniousness’ discussed in the Zhong Yong. It must be understood that what the ancients talked about had both theory and practical application. Within boxing arts, both centered harmoniousness is valued as well as compassionate justice.

“If this is not clear, then even if you practice until you are as agile as a fluttering bird or strong enough to lift a ton, you will be no more than a brash oaf and always be one of the external school. If instead you train to the point of centered harmoniousness, you will then speak knowledgeably about compassion and justice, conducting yourself appropriately and imitating what is right, and then even if you are a mass of muscle, you can be considered one of the internal school. Once you are nurturing energy at a deep level of practice, it will connect inside and outside together, and you will be able to fully determine whether you have it or not. Your energy will be [Mengzi, 2a:] ‘vast and strong’, and you will be ‘nurturing energy with integrity so it will not be corrupted’. There will be no place where it is not there and no moment when it is not thus. In hiding it away or expressing it, its use will be broad even though its presence may be slight.

“It was said by a previous generation: ‘Every single thing is a grand polarity. Every single thing is a single passivity-activity.’ We inherently possess the centered harmonious energy of the universe, for are we not each a grand polarity unto ourselves? It says in the Book of Changes [Great Treatise, part 2]: ‘For what is near, he [Fu Xi] examined within himself. For what is distant, he observed all things.’ [It says in the Xingyi Boxing Classics:] ‘The mind is internal, yet its reasoning extends to all things. Things are external, yet their principles are all there in the mind.’ Internal and external follow the same principle.”

After I had respectfully heard him out, I then realized that the way of boxing arts is the way of Nature, and that the way of Nature is the Way of mankind. I also understood that although boxing techniques and names may be different, they share a common theory. As for the distinction between internal and external, I indeed saw that it is not very penetrating and recognized the principle of dividing into such categories to be unenlightened. This encouraged me to be aware that speech should be mild and action should be natural. While we establish ourselves and make our way in the world, we have an inner sincerity and an outward behavior. Why would boxing arts be any exception to this?

When we look into famous ancient generals, such as Guan Yu or Yu Qian, they all understood the classical concept of righteousness. They are evoked in rituals and music, celebrated in poems and prose, causing people centuries later to still revere and make offerings to them. But what of men like Tian Kaiqiang or Ye Zibei, who only achieved the repute of being brave warriors? In the case of those famous men, internality and externality are in agreement [those men being both righteous and celebrated], everything fulfilled whether it is what was in them or what is displayed to us, whether we view them generally or in detail. But in the case of those other men, they are merely politely remembered, mourned for doing their duty, granted sighs.

Song had also said: “Boxing arts can transform a person’s temperament.” Examining myself, I cannot see any evidence that I am living up to this, but I am constantly haunted by the lessons I have been taught by previous generations. With this year’s publication of the Jiangsu Martial Arts Institute’s [first] annual, the organization commemorates its eighteenth year. I have served the institute for the last two years, despite my meager knowledge and abilities, having been given a sinecure which I do not deserve. Therefore I have here presented some brief remarks I have been told by one of a previous generation as a record of my unworthiness.

[This piece was clearly intended to appear in the 1929 Jiangsu Martial Arts Institute Annual, though it was not actually included in that publication. It has instead survived due to repeated inclusion in later books, thanks mainly to Sun’s daughter. Below is the piece by Sun that did appear in the Annual.]

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... un-lutang/

[AL2016]

thanks to all

[Ian]

Because jinn are in an mega parallel world that is very fast and quick like our world compare to human mental handicapped world

Were you high when you wrote this?

[wiesiek]

he forget to switch off from the theta waves mode

[AL2016]

Yes it s Islamic source

Jinn is like genius. Sometime genius have links with jinn like sometime some artist made devil pact and suddenly from middle level become expert and famous all over the world. Or like some authist making quick math calculate

[Ian]

Would you care to name some people who've made pacts with the devil?

[everything]

Agree about the graduate thing and starting with something else (probably ANY kind of grappling). At the same time these sorts of attributes should be teachable / learnable / practical at a very, very, very basic level with no or limited experience: Peng. Split. Push. Pull down. Roll back. Elbow (how could this be remotely mysterious?). Kao. They don't really consist of "finish him. mortal kombat." Then again many people with NO training can kill another person in certain circumstances. Quite sadly, really. Most "finishes" are probably NOT done by some kind of "high level" MAist who posts on internet forums.