Chen Xiaojia - Newly Translated Interview

[amor]

Charles and Dglenn - Thanks but, I think we should just agree to disagree although I do value highly both your inputs to this discussion. All I can say is I'll either achieve what I'm trying to do or i'll fail miserably.

Bao: I was actually using the 3 nails when I first started doing yang which I found out about via Mantak Chia's stuff but then I went on to try another 'foot method' using 3 different points i.e. ball of big toe, ball of small toe and center of heel. This one didn't actually 'gell' with me, didn't feel right so I went back to the 3 nails but suffice to say I think I have a better idea now of your own yang style. Although there is other stuff which I am still trying to figure out in conjunction with this so I might not be as advanced as you

Willie: I don't know about bujinkan ninjuitsu but why do you feel the 3 nails is inferior to what your doing now and is there a a different 'foot method' you are perhaps using instead now, if there is one in your style.

Serena: Yes the meridians are what they are just there.

[willie]

Willie: I don't know about bujinkan ninjuitsu but why do you feel the 3 nails is inferior to what your doing now and is there a a different 'foot method' you are perhaps using instead now, if there is one in your style.
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I never said that I thought that the 3 nails concept was inferior. I seen D_Glens post and I thought of a possible link between what you two were discussing.
Instantly the 3 nails came to mind. That is all.
thanks

[amor]

Willie: I don't know about bujinkan ninjuitsu but why do you feel the 3 nails is inferior to what your doing now and is there a a different 'foot method' you are perhaps using instead now, if there is one in your style.
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I never said that I thought that the 3 nails concept was inferior. I seen D_Glens post and I thought of a possible link between what you two were discussing.
Instantly the 3 nails came to mind. That is all.
thanks

Well I assumed so because you left your previous yang teacher for a chen teacher that you claim to be the be-all and end-all of IMA. So why would you leave your previous yang teacher for a chen stylists if you feel what you were getting initially was not inferior?

[willie]

Well I assumed so because you left your previous yang teacher for a chen teacher that you claim to be the be-all and end-all of IMA. So why would you leave your previous yang teacher for a chen stylists if you feel what you were getting initially was not inferior?

Are you sure that I said that I left my Yang teacher?

Ha, I'm not going to entertain the rest of your statement.
Other then, I never said be-all, end-all.
But I must admit that I am happy with my training.
Thank You.

[amor]

Are you sure that I said that I left my Yang teacher?

Ha, I'm not going to entertain the rest of your statement.
Other then, I never said be-all, end-all.
But I must admit that I am happy with my training.
Thank You.

Im sorry I thought you had left your first yang teacher I didn't realize you were still with him. Your previous posts about your chen style taichi do lead one to believe that what you are now doing is the bees knees and perhaps your another one who likes to experiment with different styles to feel whats right for you. Thank you.

[willie]

perhaps your another one who likes to experiment with different styles to feel whats right for you. Thank you.

I like all styles.
I've met Chen guys with some decent skills and one with amazing skill that was interested in teaching me.
I've also met Yang guys with some good skills and also one amazing one.
the amazing ones went on to be my teachers.
thanks

[D_Glenn]

That was a strange derail.

***
Back on the topic

太极拳要求圆裆，圆裆是什么？圆裆就是两腿和裆要形成一个拱形，拱形最稳定，具有最大的承受能力。中国古代的石拱桥，就是利用拱形结构的原理。
{Taijiquan demands 'Yuandang' (lit. circle crotch), but what is Yuandang? Yuandang is when both legs and the crotch form the shape of an arch (Gongxing). An Arch provides stability and is provides the greatest ability to support weight above. In China the old stone bridges utilized this foundation of an arch and is an analogy to the theory[ in TJQ].}
But the key to the analogy to stone bridges in China is that they didn't use mortar but carefully shaped and placed stones layed over a convex wooden structure. One of the key places is the anchoring into the ground at each end of the bridge, which equates to 'grasping the ground with all 10 toes' and rooting through Yongquan point, but that's considered fairly easy. The harder part is building the equivalent of the 'keystone' in the top of the arch, which after it's properly placed the wooden arch below the bridge can be removed. This is the equivalent to being able to maintain the metaphorical 'keystone' while transitioning through every movement of a Taijiquan form, or throughout all the movements of Baguazhang.
Different styles of Chen Taijiquan use different requirements but all of them still maintain the yuandang.
It actually is very important, if you want to have power in all 3 components/ or ways of generating power (san dao jin). Learning and developing 'yuandang' in all your movements, maintaining it the whole time, will allow you to use 'dang jin' at any moment. Which is an explosive/ abrupt power coming from the 2 bows of the legs, working in complete harmony.

The other aspect of maintaining the metaphorical keystone at the bottom of the pelvis is because Dang Jin is tied into the Yao Jin (dantian power) as they're both components of the engine (fadongji), and the on/off switch (kaiguan) to the whole engine is considered to be the 'weilu' (tailbone gate) or weigu (tailbone). And an important part of having a developed Dang is that it's holding up Changqiang point (GV1), and the whole sequence of action that is started when the tailbone flips the switch. So it's the properly constructed yuandang that allows the tailbone to move freely and easily back and forth, while in any stance, to initiate the release of power, and the Dang Jin will properly support the power to channel it upward.


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[amor]

That was a strange derail.

***



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I don't think it was a strange derail it was actually quite pertinent to the topic whether you see it or not. A derail is something like those threads about aiki where much hilarity ensues and they usually end up in BTDT.

But about the dang, I was thinking over it and I don't know if the following makes it any easier to understand but I will try:

The dang and specifically Yuandang is characterized by an upside down 'U' shape or 'n' shape. So it's about transitioning from a upside down 'V' shape to an upside down 'U' shape in the legs. The 'U' shape is what our ZZ and XingZhuang is all about but we don't want to use 'U' shape dang while in actual combat, atleast in my line of taichi, maybe different in yours. The 'U' shape is to make the upside down 'V' shape stronger, flexible and all the things that go into making one combat-ready. You also don't want to be using U shape in combat just as you wouldn't want to walk like this or do daily life activities in 'U' mode. You will feel very awkward. It's upside down 'V' shape all the way except when training your body in an IMA context.

The method you use to transition from upside down 'V' to upside down 'U' is critical.

[D_Glenn]

But about the dang, I was thinking over it and I don't know if the following makes it any easier to understand but I will try:

The dang and specifically Yuandang is characterized by an upside down 'U' shape or 'n' shape. So it's about transitioning from a upside down 'V' shape to an upside down 'U' shape in the legs. The 'U' shape is what our ZZ and XingZhuang is all about but we don't want to use 'U' shape dang while in actual combat, atleast in my line of taichi, maybe different in yours. The 'U' shape is to make the upside down 'V' shape stronger, flexible and all the things that go into making one combat-ready. You also don't want to be using U shape in combat just as you wouldn't want to walk like this or do daily life activities in 'U' mode. You will feel very awkward. It's upside down 'V' shape all the way except when training your body in an IMA context.

The method you use to transition from upside down 'V' to upside down 'U' is critical.

Umm.. not no, but Hell No.

The yuandang is ALL ABOUT combat!



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[willie]

that's right. if they cant break the U, then a whole lot of things that could of happened, did not happen.
The U is also better then a V. it's the outward pressure.

[charles]

One version of what maintaining a rounded crotch looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny9biV4DQmo

[Trip]

One version of what maintaining a rounded crotch looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny9biV4DQmo

Thanks Charles!
It's always good to see Tung Ying Chieh

[D_Glenn]

So, to describe something it may be helpful to describe it's opposite, but the opposite of yuandang is not a an upside down 'V' shape!

The opposite of yuandang is an immobile lumbar, sacrum and tailbone combined with an essentially frozen pelvis and hip joints. A person without yuandang can't do 'xiong yao zhedie' aka 'bolangjin' movement of the spine to issue power from their dantian.

The important part of yuandang is the keystone.

When standing in a lower height stance this importance starts getting down into the configuration of the whole leg where it is about the leg shape but all of which really only has to do with keeping the proper rotation of the hip, as the hip is hooking in or swinging out.

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[amor]

So, to describe something it may be helpful to describe it's opposite, but the opposite of yuandang is not a an upside down 'V' shape!

The opposite of yuandang is an immobile lumbar, sacrum and tailbone combined with an essentially frozen pelvis and hip joints. A person without yuandang can't do 'xiong yao zhedie' aka 'bolangjin' movement of the spine to issue power from their dantian.

The important part of yuandang is the keystone.

When standing in a lower height stance this importance starts getting down into the configuration of the whole leg where it is about the leg shape but all of which really only has to do with keeping the proper rotation of the hip, as the hip is hooking in or swinging out.

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The upsidedown 'V' is probably not a clear description. The 'V' shape im getting at is usually seen in stances where the back foot is usually pointing to the corner your facing, so about 45 degrees to the front foot. Also, there is not distinctive fold in the chest, the spine looks vertical with a slight bend in the back leg so the weight is around 50/60 or fairly equal give or take a little amount of weight.

With 'my version' of yundang (and im not implying its correct its currently still a Work In Progress) the back leg is quite straight and there is a definite fold between the chest and waist, it's also lower stance and the spine is slanted as opposed to appearing vertical. The back foot is also pointed out usually larger than 45 degrees but no more than 90. The distribution of weight is also not as close ranging, the distribution is wider than the above.

With the rounded crotch or yuandang and in my current unconnected state I can tell the feeling of weight distribution goes through the heel, up through the sitbones and up in the center of the scapulae (providing they are in the correct position).
With the upsidedown V shape the weight goes more through the big toe but that doesn't mean the whole foot is not rooted.

IN the Tung video its clear and good example of rounded crotch. As for the upsidedown V I can only think that this pic of chen manching might be closest to it:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... a4a60c.jpg

I'm just going to say I don't know which is better really as I'm not still not fully connected to be able to tell the difference, im sure they both have their pro's and cons. You might actually be right on this and I wouldn't bet against you.

[D_Glenn]

WTF?

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