Experience with Tu Na Si Ba

[Peacedog]

A friend has been encouraging me to learn tu na si ba lately. I'm meeting with a teacher who knows this for one on one lessons next week.

Does anyone here have experience with this and what did you find?

[zrm]

Do you mean this one? https://www.amazon.com/Xing-Yi-Quan-Tu- ... 1478728663

I got that book after learning a Tu Na set from a different master. Although the set I learnt was quite different to the ones presented here, from reading the book the principles and end goal was the same.

Tu Na can be pretty advanced in that you are dealing with some pretty subtle stuff regarding using the breath to effect your entire body. It opened up a lot of stuff for me personally. From a martial perspective it help with my understanding golden bell, iron shirt, fa jin, san ti, zz. From a qi gong perspective it help lend some concrete physical sensations to what is usually only discussed as mental visualizations.

Judging from what I've read of your posts online it should be right up your alley.

[amor]

A friend has been encouraging me to learn tu na si ba lately. I'm meeting with a teacher who knows this for one on one lessons next week.

Does anyone here have experience with this and what did you find?

You might have heard the Inner refuge teachings from Tibetan side, too advanced for me but might be right up your street.

[Yeung]

This is interesting, a new development by Li Gui Chang (1914-2000) in breathing exercise:

http://www.internalartsinternational.co ... ba-videos/

[Peacedog]

Thanks for the inputs everyone.

It seems to be an interesting modality and I'm looking forward to experiencing what folks have described.

I'll throw a few updates on the board as things take form.

For what it is worth a lot of Bisio's guys seem to practice this.

[yeniseri]

Warning: I have no concrete knowledge of the Chinese languange (I am aware of my own simplistic orientation) and I used to rely on those who are far more knowledgeable than myself!

As I imagine that I understand from what I imagined I was told by a few of my past teachers, all CMA has elements of tu na si ba along with concepts and principles of liu he ba fa. Over time this has been lost and replaced by arts bearing the same name i.e. Liu he ba fa, tu na si ba alleging to possess those concepts and principles and so far this has failed to actually replace those origins. There is a level of "Daoist, daoyin exercise methods (I have nothing to show for this regarding proof other than what I imagined I thought I understood

I mentioned a bookstore (Peking Bookstore, Evanston, IL) that Mr Cheng, former owner, used to provide books to local area universities and in the basement were 'older' books about daoyin/daoist methods of, and for longevity and with martial utility/functionality. Mr Cheng even used to say that the language of pre 1930 (I am guessing the year here ) changed to such an extent that the previous characters were difficult to convey the depth of concept and translation tended to obscure the true meaning of said concept. The best way to test this is to use Baidu (China search engine) and look up some of the various concepts, do the auto translation and you will see what I mean. Stuff just does not come through with English translation and at times, the more 'esoteric' the concept, more gibberish obfuscation will be see when text is translated. Please test yourself and see what I means for your own reference.

Bottom line is that taijiquan has all of this ( tu na si ba/liu he ba fa/liu he ba fa) so nothing to re-invent. Despite the sanitized CMA of today, the simplistic addition of chan ssujin/chansi gong within sequences of flexion. extension, adduction,etc with said forms creates the foundation of and for function of these concepts.

[zrm]

I don't think anybody is making the claim that the methods practiced in the Tu Na Si Ba set can't be found in other arts. It's just a method for focusing on one particular aspect of training. The Li Gui Chang method above that Bisio is teaching is shown in direct relation to xing yi practice, in particular san ti and pi quan.

[jjy5016]

They are very good exercises for refining one's original qi and jin. The videos of Song are good to follow for reference but there are a lot of details contained in those 4 exercises that come about over time. Worth the investment for sure.

[jjy5016]

I don't think anybody is making the claim that the methods practiced in the Tu Na Si Ba set can't be found in other arts. It's just a method for focusing on one particular aspect of training. The Li Gui Chang method above that Bisio is teaching is shown in direct relation to xing yi practice, in particular san ti and pi quan.

Actually the 4 tu na contain all five of the elements of xing yi in them. They also have their origin in yi jin ching, marrow washing and taijiquan theory. Nothing that isn't in other systems though. Just laid out in a plain, no frills set of exercises.

[aiasthewall]

I've been doing these on my own for a year or so. To be honest, I am not sure I can articulate what exactly I have gained from them. Strengthened connections between feet, mingmen, spine and hands. Opened up ribs. Increased awareness of internal elasticity. Increased awareness of opening and closing.

I have had some very odd experiences of spontaneous movement and ecstatic tremors, etc.

From what I was taught you do all four in a row, but for me this takes 1.5+ hours, so I usually choose 1 and do that for the day.

[zrm]

I don't think anybody is making the claim that the methods practiced in the Tu Na Si Ba set can't be found in other arts. It's just a method for focusing on one particular aspect of training. The Li Gui Chang method above that Bisio is teaching is shown in direct relation to xing yi practice, in particular san ti and pi quan.

Actually the 4 tu na contain all five of the elements of xing yi in them. They also have their origin in yi jin ching, marrow washing and taijiquan theory. Nothing that isn't in other systems though. Just laid out in a plain, no frills set of exercises.

I don't disagree. I was directly referring to the material in the Tu Na book itself, which has a whole section dedicated solely to San Ti Shi and makes assertions such as "Most important is San Ti Shi and Pi Quan. Xing Yi is really only Pi Quan, there is nothing else" and "If San Ti Shi is not practiced correctly, or if one practices it in a stiff or rigid manner, then it is impossible to develop Gong Fu, and as a result Pi Quan and the rest of the Xing Yi's five fists will be a series of empty forms".

[Peacedog]

To all,

Thank you for the comments and information. I had my first lesson last week and got thru the first form.

Very much a system for activating the spine wave mechanism of power generation. Very passive in its method of doing this and it avoids the upwards rolling of the guts I've seen in other systems.

Should be fun. I'll post some updates as it takes form.