RSF Origins

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

RSF Origins

Postby KEND on Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:55 am

Looking at 'RSF what is it' brought back memories. For the people who joined recently a brief history. RSF evolved from EmptyFlower a forum basically for Hsing yi founded by David DeVere around 2000. It was a little different from other forums, possibly a little more intellectual, covering a range of subjects outside martial arts, which may have helped it survive. David died in 2012 [obit. below] still a comparatively young man, for those who knew him, a sad day.
I joined around 2001 and found it was a site like no other, smart people with strong opinions, and I posted regularly.
After David's death the name of the site was taken by a member and there was doubt that the site would survive. Thanks to Felipe Bido and other enthusiasts it did survive and flourishes to this day.
So let us pay respects to the founder David and the members who helped the site to survive, help by posting, don't lurk in the shadows, recommend it to your MA friends, there is a lot of information here, inside and outside the martial arts

In Memory of David DeVere
September 23, 1968 - June 6, 2012
Obituary
David N. DeVere, 43, of Phoenix, AZ., passed away while in hospice from liver and renal failure, on June 6, 2012. He was a gifted artist and web designer for the film industry. David had a heart of gold and a sharp wit. One of his passions was to make people laugh. He was loved by so many people and will be deeply missed.
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Strange on Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:54 am

keepin it real
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双
i said slowly and evenly; i did not say weakly
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Bao on Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:30 am

Thank you KEND, good being nostalgic sometimes. I visited the old EF from 2001 and became a member about 2004 I think.

Just want to add that the ol' EF was divided into two forums. One kept the name "empty flower" and the other of the fractions survived.

There are not many active MA boards today. Maybe the age of the members contribute to this forum is still such an active place. Hope it will continue to live and prosper. :D
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- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Tom on Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:02 am

This forum and its antecedents are comparatively ancient--I don't know of any active Chinese martial arts forums that are older, except the KF Magazine online forum that Gene Ching manages. RSF is probably the oldest extant noncommercial forum on the internal martial arts.

David DeVere started compiling material for the site late in 1999, while he was still living in Phoenix. Although DDV had some beginning-level exposure to Chen taijiquan, the turning point for his interest in Chinese internal arts came when training with Dave Meikle, who was visiting family in Phoenix. Working long-distance with Felipe Bido n the Dominican Republic, DDV put together information and graphics with content from a growing number of contributors including current forum members like Ken Fish. The level of experience, insight and writing skill, the noncommercial nature of the forum, the freewheeling expressions of strong opinions, the elegant and evocative design, all based on voluntary efforts, was unique at that time and engendered a casual but fierce level of loyalty amongst a core group of forum members. When the trademark theft a few years later resulted in a forum split, RSF was born (April 2008). DDV had stopped training martial arts a few years earlier, focusing on his graphic design and art work for major movie websites. He was already facing some of the health issues that would lead to his untimely demise in 2012.

Requiescat in pace, David. Your community lives on.
My first goal is staying healthy and safe and following my heart on the path.

---Kevin Secours
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby chud on Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:31 pm

Tom wrote:
Requiescat in pace, David. Your community lives on.


By starting EmptyFlower David DeVere did a lot to help expose many people, me included, to the internal arts of Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, and Taijiquan.

If I recall correctly, the original forum software did not save threads long term, so a lot of great stuff from the early days faded away and was unfortunately lost (I remember a thread called "Why Taijiquan?" that got me interested and started me on the path to learning Tai Chi).

The RSF forum has slowed down a bit since those days due to people leaving, getting banned, or simply using Facebook groups...but this forum still has its place in the community.

+ R.I.P. DDV +
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Morty on Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:57 am

I stumbled upon emptyflower (the awesome web site, that is) in 2002 or so. All the old greats on the forums also helped my practice immensely. Somehow, the discussions seem to have been meatier and thicker with useful stuff back then... or maybe I'm just too old these days ;D

Old classics such as "Tighten the grain path" , "Break yo hip", "Unretouched photo", Sifu Z, and Felipe's practice images doing the eagle and bear form (not to mention the rum bottle photos) will always stick with me.

I'll drink one to DDV.
The essence is shut the fuck up and train.
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby dragonprawn on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:14 am

Perhaps appropriate that I post for the first time in a long time on this thread. I was on the old ef and some of you know me. Good to know rsf is still up and running. I look forward to reading some threads and chiming in here and there.
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:47 pm

If you wish to pay homage to David the best way is to make the site strong
The current bias and promotion of cliques on site is getting a lot of good people to leave
The site is becoming a forum for certain commercial endeavours and cult groups
One way to make it strong and transparent is to make sure people show what groups they belong to
It would help if people also showed not only how long they trained but when they began and when they name several arts if they were trained concurrently or consecutively
When you add up some peoples training in arts it adds up to more than their age
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Tom on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:56 pm

This forum--and every forum--has "biases and clques," Wayne. It's inherent in every human endeavor. Good people come and go. Bad people come and go. People in general come and go for a wide variety of reasons. Somtimes people leave because they are assholes, sometime people stay because they are assholes. Sometimes the forum stalls need to be shoveled out, sometimes they are self-policing. The membership changes over time. That's in the nature of things. We get a lot of new people with interesting perspectives and varieties of MA experience to replace the ones who leave.

The key thing to remember is this is a living room for all forum members. Please don't shit in our living room. If you don't like it here, then just stop reading or posting. It really is that simple. No one forces you to be here. This goes for the whiners, the bullies, the bombastic and the ennui-addled.

Cheers.
My first goal is staying healthy and safe and following my heart on the path.

---Kevin Secours
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:52 pm

Gee tom I thought what I said was reasonable
If someone else had got as vindictive as you just did you would want to call them to task
I just asked for is all to work a bit harder to make the site stronger
I like a lot of what goes on here and think in my own small way I contribute
That is obviously not your view
And to go to the old bumper sticker of love it or leave it
Please
I won't reply on this again
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Finny on Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:51 am

I thought what Tom said was pretty reasonable - there have indeed always been cliques.

Ongoing negativity does no one any good.

Reform, tighter moderation, commercial additions have all been suggested over the years. The character of eF/RSF has always run counter to those ideas - the beauty of eF is the laissez-faire community approach.
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby KEND on Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:25 am

The forum is comparatively calm nowadays. Years ago it abounded with trolls and egomaniacs, they came they went, the level of debate has become more civilized. The strength lies in having a place to go where you can discuss your passion, the MA's but also the other things that make up your life
Incidentally I don't know if the photo archives still exist but there were some of David when ven. Fish and I visited him in,
I believe, 2001
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Tom on Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:32 am

The "you" in the second paragraph was meant in the general sense, not Wayne specifically.

The RSF community changes with each new member and with the changing nature of existing members' interests. There is no test for membership, like battling your way through the 18 (or 36, or 108) wooden men of the Shaolin temple and lifting the smoldeing dragon urn out of the way.

People are asked to state their martial arts experience when they join. Some voluntarily update it. Far more relevant is the experience shared in the context of specific dialogues on the forum.

David DeVere gave this forum creative space in its early years. Early on (it wasn't even two years old at that point), David had moved from Phoenix to Los Angeles to pursue opportunities in art and website design. He started training xingyi under Gong Zhong Xiang in Monterey Park. Ken Delves and Ken Fish visited, helping inspire a long-running tradition of forum members meeting up in person to train or socialize, making the virtual living room real. I remember the photos you refer to, Ken.
My first goal is staying healthy and safe and following my heart on the path.

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Re: RSF Origins

Postby kenneth fish on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:05 am

No sooner done than said. Oh, wait a minute, that is a different activity.....

Anyway, here is a link to the photos.


http://ef.sifuondemand.com/crushing/visit/visit01.html
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Re: RSF Origins

Postby Tom on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:48 am

That's them! Thanks Ken.
My first goal is staying healthy and safe and following my heart on the path.

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