Refuting Hong Yixiang's expell

[Overlord]

Traditionally, ......don't think that it's any of our business to pry - disrespectful, even.

Maarten, I think saying deceased Hong being expelled by his master is very untrue and disrespectful.
Anyway, the answers were address to Rhen because he PM me. If you don't like it, you just don't read it.
I mean very often I found your thread lengthy and pointless, so I simply skip them~ not that I am complaining,
Everyone just think, grow and learn differently.

And I do believe many share same curiosity like Rhen.
Hong had further improved much in his skills during his later years after the BBC documentary.
Hong had three batches of students, first Xu Hongji, relatives and friends. Second, Su and Luo.
And the third.

Over

[kenneth fish]

Andy: Reprinting here what I last told you privately:
I am afraid the arguement about Hong is something you will need to hire a medium (占童) for in order to get the last word from the spirits. As I said, Master Zhang told everyone within earshot that he had kicked Hong out. The other people whose contacts I have given you can confirm it (and if you can get a hold of 李聰雄 he can probably give you more details). Regarding "etiquitte" and certificates and the like- frankly I don't think Master Zhang cared about such things . So no, I don't agree with you on that (edit: the rigmarole regarding an expulsion rite) . As I said before, if the Hong's would like to contact me in writing I would be happy to reply.

I would add that these events took place before you were born and before I became a student of Master Zhang's. It is obvious that to you they are of some importance (I assume because of your relationship with Hong Yixiang's children). Master Zhang's children are still living in Taipei, and I know that his eldest son was well aware of the various disagreements and politics. If you are indeed serious about digging up the Zhang family version of events, you might want to contact him.

This really is relevant only to the parties involved. Master Zhang, Mrs. Zhang, Hong Yixiang, and many of the senior students are long gone.

[Overlord]

Ken
Are you saying you did not go through Baishi ceremony with Master Zhang?

Over

[kenneth fish]

As I mentioned in our private correspondence, Master Zhang was an elder in the (then illegal) Yi Guan Dao. The Yi Guan Dao discourages ceremonies that involve pledging oneself to other people in that manner. I did go through a Baishi ceremony with Master Zhang and another Yi Guan Dao elder, initiating me into the religious group, in which I pledged fealty to them as teachers of the sect and they accepted me as a student. It is because of Master Zhang's position in the Yi Guan Dao that he was not terribly comfortable with the Baishi ceremonies for martial arts students, but he felt he was obliged to do so early on in the building of the school. His circumstances were quite different when I met him.

From what I can tell, many of the senior students of Master Gao who were from Tianjin or Shandong were a part of the Yi Guan Dao. I met two other Gao style teachers of that generation (one in Taiwan) who alluded to this, and when I was taken as a student of another Gao style teacher (much later, in the 1990's) we went through an Yi Guan Dao ceremony as well.

[xxxxx]

Locked. Please continue the conversation privately if important to you.