the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Published on: Tue, 02 Aug 2016
Robert Allen Pittman is a Xingyi and Bagua teacher who has studied with Robert W. Smith, and in Taiwan Hung I-mien, and the sons of Chen Pan Ling. Allen is the author of "Walking the I Ching: The Linear Bagua of Gao Yi Sheng." He has co-authored books with his late teacher, Robert W. Smith, who was a pioneer in bringing knowledge of Chinese kung-fu to the United States due to his work in Taiwan for the Central Intelligence Agency. In this interview, Allen talks about training with his teachers, living and studying in Taiwan, and the changes that wushu has brought to traditional Chinese kung-fu.

http://internalfightingarts.audello.com ... n-pittman/

Published on Dec 4, 2012
Prestation de Allen Pittman lors de la Nuit des Arts Martiaux 2012:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GilhtpimII

That video.

Josealb wrote:That video.

Yep...

Josealb wrote:That video.

Could only watch a few seconds of it. Just the first movements alone with his chin sticking out like that....an amateur boxer would catch him on the chin.

At the end (when the silk jammies came off) -- was that supposed to have been some sort of "MMA format" reference or...?

He claims to know and teach "the old way" of doing XY. However, both movement and flavor is nothing I associate with XY, older or newer. He seems to be more of a bagua guy and I guess it's there his interest lies. I would guess that he probably exaggerated the movements for sake of the big crowd...
...and of course, by knowing they are french...

I liked the interview. Very interesting.

I'll repeat my comments from 形意拳 - Xing Yi Quan - Xingyiquan - Hsing Yi Facebook Group:

So I listened to the interview and definitely liked some of the things he said, and definitely did not like a lot of other things he said. That being said his comments about Sun Lu Tang, and his daughter are way off base.

My teacher, like Per Nyfelt, studied with Sun Jianyun, and got quite a bit of the goods on Baguazhang and Taijiquan, which is evident from the videos that Tim produced on Sun Style Taijiquan. Who cares if she wasn't in "class," she was Sun's daughter, and she had older brothers who were quite good, I'm sure she got plenty of useful training in.

I'm going to be very vague: I heard a story from person C about person P, C said that he had spoken to P's teacher, person H, who studied with him for several WEEKS over a TWO year period. H told C that when he goes to the US that he should look up P and help him understand the material that H taught him better because P doesn't understand how to really apply it to fighting.

Allen's Xingyi (from the above video, and his books) is terrible, and anyone who thinks that he's transmitting the "old stuff" has no idea what the f**k they're talking about it.

Fa Xing wrote:Allen's Xingyi (from the above video, and his books) is terrible, and anyone who thinks that he's transmitting the "old stuff" has no idea what the f**k they're talking about it.

Mannerisms taken to an absurd extreme. That strange head and torso movement is part of the Hong xingyiquan system, but no way that way...

"Which of you is there who does not laugh when our friend Messer Pierpaolo dances in his peculiar way, with those capers of his, — legs stiff to the toe and head motionless, as if he were a stick, and with such intentness that he actually seems to be counting the steps ? What eye so blind as not to see in this the ungracefulness of affectation..." Il Cortegiano (The Book of the Courtier), Baldassare Castiglione 1528.

Fa Xing wrote:So I listened to the interview and definitely liked some of the things he said, and definitely did not like a lot of other things he said. That being said his comments about Sun Lu Tang, and his daughter are way off base.

My teacher, ... studied with Sun Jianyun, and got quite a bit of the goods on Baguazhang and Taijiquan, which is evident from the videos that Tim produced on Sun Style Taijiquan. Who cares if she wasn't in "class," she was Sun's daughter, and she had older brothers who were quite good, I'm sure she got plenty of useful training in.

I have heard quite a few stories about what Mrs. Sun could do. She seem to have had very good skills. For instance, an Italian student told me that she used her hip to strike with, for defending against a rear bearhug, sending him quite far away. So she seem to have had some combat Kung fu skills all right. But still, there's something to what Pittman said. First, Sun Lutang was traveling everywhere around when his daughter was young. And in later years, Sun Lutang didn't want to teach IMA as a martial art and combat, and taught for health only. But still, she lived in a martial arts family and had it around her all of the time, and often watched his father and other practicing. Of course she still learned a lot from many different people around her. The thing that concerns me most is that there's a whole lot of politics into this picture. Just like many other teachers, Mrs Sun was watched over. There was an agreement on what could be taught in public and not. Anyway, there are many things usually done differently in Sun style that goes against principles of structure and movement taught in other Tai Chi styles. Whatever you call this, watered down, health version tai chi or just style and lineages differences, doesn't matter. It's still the students own responsibility to explore Tai Chi as an art, it's principles and it's potential.

Fa Xing wrote:I'll repeat my comments from 形意拳 - Xing Yi Quan - Xingyiquan - Hsing Yi Facebook Group:

I see ya, T.

Josealb wrote:

Fa Xing wrote:I'll repeat my comments from 形意拳 - Xing Yi Quan - Xingyiquan - Hsing Yi Facebook Group:

I see ya, T.

LOL!

I have no particular contact with Mr Pittman, except through my teacher Marnix Wells who was involved in introducing him to Hung Yimien back in the day. Please feel free therefore to take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Hung was a proper practitioner and taught him the Gao bagua "fully". Doubtless there would have been other things thrown in the mix too, but this is his core art. The earlier stuff from Smith is obviously still there and he teaches it. He is a lanky chap and has clearly studied hard - you see it in his frame when you meet him. His movement looks a little idiosyncratic to my eye, and there is probably a "am demonstrating in public so over-emphasise some things, hide others" thing going on.

Those who are weighing in hard on this thread to say he does not have any content are short of the mark. As we would most of us agree, to know that you need to meet and touch hands. Most commenting have not and are going from the video.
RT